https://www.pureaudioproject.com/
https://thivanlabs.com/open-baffle/grand-open-2/
https://darko.audio/2017/01/kih-40-openly-baffled/
https://www.linkwitzlab.com/builtown.htm
https://6moons.com/audioreviews/ob/ob.html
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/OB7.htm
http://aespeakers.com/OB1.php
https://6moons.com/audioreviews/emerald/1.html
This thread about midrange in 3way is a failure, so lets at least see some successful open baffle speakers. Which according to thread starter, do not exist.
https://hifiplus.com/articles/gradient-helsinki-15-loudspeaker-hifi-plus-71/
https://www.pureaudioproject.com/quintet10-stellar-wall-of-sound-open-baffle-speakers/
http://www.dnaudio.com/DNA Speaker.html
https://hometheaterhifi.com/editorial/oped/are-open-baffle-speakers-a-flawed-technology/
http://www.audioartistry.com/products_legacy.htm
https://thivanlabs.com/open-baffle/grand-open-2/
https://darko.audio/2017/01/kih-40-openly-baffled/
https://www.linkwitzlab.com/builtown.htm
https://6moons.com/audioreviews/ob/ob.html
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/OB7.htm
http://aespeakers.com/OB1.php
https://6moons.com/audioreviews/emerald/1.html
This thread about midrange in 3way is a failure, so lets at least see some successful open baffle speakers. Which according to thread starter, do not exist.
https://hifiplus.com/articles/gradient-helsinki-15-loudspeaker-hifi-plus-71/
https://www.pureaudioproject.com/quintet10-stellar-wall-of-sound-open-baffle-speakers/
http://www.dnaudio.com/DNA Speaker.html
https://hometheaterhifi.com/editorial/oped/are-open-baffle-speakers-a-flawed-technology/
http://www.audioartistry.com/products_legacy.htm
don't be too severe ,with 8" good driver in ob in small room can be quite happy like a good 5" reflex or mediocre 6.5" ....there is a lot of people happy for shoes box with kef b110 on LS 3/a go figure
Much of it is nonsense but if you are happy with it then that is what matters for a hobby. A driver that is low passed at 200 Hz is a woofer not a subwoofer and that will have been confusing people. You are simply describing putting a woofer in it's own cabinet which is generally a good thing because high quality woofer cabinets and high quality mid/tweeter cabinet have different design requirements. Subwoofers in reasonable high fidelity systems will be typically lowpassed at 60-80 Hz since they will be locatable if crossed higher in frequency. If you wish to implement various forms of directivity and/or not pressurising the room at low frequencies a common and flexible way to do it is with 2 subs next to each other with controls set appropriately. This enables monopole, dipole and cardioid to be tried in a room. The non-monopole directivities are created by cancelling sound and so you will need bigger subwoofers to achieve the same SPLs as a normal monopole subwoofer.
i dont understand why you compare a good 8" to a "mediocre 6.5"
Given a good 8" (that is what i will end using) will a OB provide a lower distortion at the same SPL and Hz than a rightly designed closed/reflex box ?
that is the question ...
not me A friend has a pair that he loves deeply For me they are caponized
Thanks a lot ! i swear i will look at these site but it will take me some time ... 🙂
As a first impression these speakers ask for space ... that unfortunately i do not have 😢
For sure they are beautiful indeed Great speakers ... in any sense
Hello,
I build speakers since over 30 years and what I found out was that ~10% of the final result is design decision and 90% is crossover tuning. And in most cases the first ideas was not the best. So dont't care too much about the design and spend more effort into the implementation.
I had the same question with my combination 22W / 12MU / D3004 and actually I have the crossover at 600Hz / 3kHz with a great result. I planned to try a lower 300/3000 but didn't realised it up to now because its so fine actually...
My finings to midrange domes (Thiel/Accuton C44): There can be achived a very good result, but if you are even a little bit off in the tuning its quite terrible. In comparison the 12MU was very tame.
Regards, Jean-Claude
I build speakers since over 30 years and what I found out was that ~10% of the final result is design decision and 90% is crossover tuning. And in most cases the first ideas was not the best. So dont't care too much about the design and spend more effort into the implementation.
I had the same question with my combination 22W / 12MU / D3004 and actually I have the crossover at 600Hz / 3kHz with a great result. I planned to try a lower 300/3000 but didn't realised it up to now because its so fine actually...
My finings to midrange domes (Thiel/Accuton C44): There can be achived a very good result, but if you are even a little bit off in the tuning its quite terrible. In comparison the 12MU was very tame.
Regards, Jean-Claude
OB give enjoy of music not performance ,you must understand this first then with the rigth $$ you can have better performance too
When you look at it from a commercial point of view, every person has a rear end, and there's a seat for every a$$, making everyone a customer for something.
Plenty of people are happy with the LS3/5 as a suitable speaker for their needs. I'm not one of them, as I don't consider this a full bandwidth solution. For me, satisfying bass needs to go down to at least the mid 30s, preferably mid 20s, but as our brains can reconstruct the missing low end based on the higher harmonics, smaller speakers are capable of conveying alot of typical music this way being that an electric string bass has louder 2nd harmonics than the fundamental tones. That.makes a speaker which only goes down to 82 hz capable of conveying a 41 hz low E on a 4 string bass.
You definitely need at least an 8 inch driver to reproduce sub frequencies at a satisfying level. A single 6 inch won't cut it and will be woefully inefficient if its a long stroke design, making power compression a real issue, especially in a relatively small sealed box. A transmission line with an 8 inch driver can sound good if dampened properly. I've heard a few designs like this which gave me a good representation of low end, even with pipe organ music and higher dynamic range classical. For something like EDM you'll need way more low end output capability for satisfying results (at least for my tastes).
Classical pieces like Stravinsky's Rite of Spring really need lots of cone surface area just to authoritively convey the lower midrange bandwidth of the percussion, strings and brass, let alone the full low end demanded by the bass drums in this piece. A small bookshelf 2 way speaker will be miserably disappointing when tasked to reproduce this material.
Plenty of people are happy with the LS3/5 as a suitable speaker for their needs. I'm not one of them, as I don't consider this a full bandwidth solution. For me, satisfying bass needs to go down to at least the mid 30s, preferably mid 20s, but as our brains can reconstruct the missing low end based on the higher harmonics, smaller speakers are capable of conveying alot of typical music this way being that an electric string bass has louder 2nd harmonics than the fundamental tones. That.makes a speaker which only goes down to 82 hz capable of conveying a 41 hz low E on a 4 string bass.
You definitely need at least an 8 inch driver to reproduce sub frequencies at a satisfying level. A single 6 inch won't cut it and will be woefully inefficient if its a long stroke design, making power compression a real issue, especially in a relatively small sealed box. A transmission line with an 8 inch driver can sound good if dampened properly. I've heard a few designs like this which gave me a good representation of low end, even with pipe organ music and higher dynamic range classical. For something like EDM you'll need way more low end output capability for satisfying results (at least for my tastes).
Classical pieces like Stravinsky's Rite of Spring really need lots of cone surface area just to authoritively convey the lower midrange bandwidth of the percussion, strings and brass, let alone the full low end demanded by the bass drums in this piece. A small bookshelf 2 way speaker will be miserably disappointing when tasked to reproduce this material.
Hi yes ! exactly what i meant I do not like subs at all but i like deep and strong bass I think that subs are mostly for HT and special effects
But i wonder if a sub can be used not only for the very low bass but also up to 150Hz ... from there a 2 way can take care of the remaining job
Very good subwoofers have impressive freq response, very low distortion at high SPLs ... all good things I do not know if there are good passive subs
Most of them are powered.
Thanks a lot but this i dont understand I am interested a lot in subs because they are a woofer in a separate cabinet as i would like to do
If i had already a 3 way i would take out the mid and the tweeter and place them in a separate box or even baffle like in the DQ10 Mechanically isolated from the box with the woofer. And i would brace and increase the mass of the box. And i am sure i would end with a much better sound
When i hear some designers say that a speaker box must resonate i cannot believe to my ears One thing is a musical instrument where the box acts as a sound box another thing is a loudspeaker where the box should be silent One thing is to generate a sound another one to reproduce it
When i added weigth to my speakers at some point it seemed like they were disconnected from the amp At the point that i checked that
It was surprising The sound was completely detached from the speakers So much more than before the increase of mass
Unfortunately lead that is a God's gift to increase mass and dampen is very toxic It costs also nothing
Hi thanks a lot for your kind and valuable advice. 90% is a lot indeed. Maybe too much ? For instance i think that drivers selection is very important as well
You can have the best xover of the world but if the drivers are bad the sound will be bad Imho the best reviewed speakers had all extremely good drivers
Like the ATC's dome, the Heil's tweeter, the Apogee's ribbons, etc. In the end the drivers make the sound
Boy, people try to help you, but you are resisting very well.
You don't like problems that have no simple answer, you show that in every post.
In deed the x-over is not 90% of a multi way speaker, it is 100%, as without it there is no quality speaker worth to listen to.
One can do a 3-way x-over in about 45 seconds, only looking at the drivers and picking some caps from a box of old parts. No electronic part needed for the woofer, a capacitor for the mid, a smaller one for the tweeter and you are done. This prevents the speakers to be destroyed in the first seconds playing music.
You find such x-over "constructions" in many car audio speakers and even so called "HIFI" boxes that are wonderfully cheap.
As even you may realize, such a 90% construction has nothing to do with "High Fidelity". Even as such speakers may sound satisfying for many, when their brain/ ear has time to adjust to them and they carefully avoid listening to any reverence.
You can sure build a speaker of this kind from your salvaged parts if you learn basics about x-over parts.
You don't like problems that have no simple answer, you show that in every post.
In deed the x-over is not 90% of a multi way speaker, it is 100%, as without it there is no quality speaker worth to listen to.
One can do a 3-way x-over in about 45 seconds, only looking at the drivers and picking some caps from a box of old parts. No electronic part needed for the woofer, a capacitor for the mid, a smaller one for the tweeter and you are done. This prevents the speakers to be destroyed in the first seconds playing music.
You find such x-over "constructions" in many car audio speakers and even so called "HIFI" boxes that are wonderfully cheap.
As even you may realize, such a 90% construction has nothing to do with "High Fidelity". Even as such speakers may sound satisfying for many, when their brain/ ear has time to adjust to them and they carefully avoid listening to any reverence.
You can sure build a speaker of this kind from your salvaged parts if you learn basics about x-over parts.
you don't know what you don't know. you can't learn on paper what you'll like in person.
That is just a small sample, there are many others...like Legacy Audio, Oido, Ecobox A priori, Lampizator, Ronald Wanders, and lets not forget diy Manzanita.
thanks a lot for the very useful advice
you say 8"
i was listening from a small speaker and i understood what i was missing after listening to a more full range 3 way
mini speakers need a sub indeed to provide a complete reproduction
thanks but just a simple question
if you had to design and build a 3 way where would you start then ? my guess is from the drivers selection. Am i wrong?
and then the xover of course
i was just asking if there is any reason to prefer domes to cones for the midrange driver and now i know that both could be fine
the only thing I really want is the woofer in a separate box
why satellite plus sub are so unpopular i don't understand really
i have got the main answer i was looking for
i would just ask which are the steps to design a 3 way (sub plus 2 way satellite)
why people prefer long and wide baffles?
