Lordtarquin
Glad to hear it is sorted.
The drop in hf could be down to the sticky tape (if used) supplied with the exciters .
I have found that gluing the excites more rigidly in place helps increase the hf.
The 3 mm ply and hardboard which I have used in the past using this method have had no problems reaching 20k.
All the best.
Steve.
Glad to hear it is sorted.
The drop in hf could be down to the sticky tape (if used) supplied with the exciters .
I have found that gluing the excites more rigidly in place helps increase the hf.
The 3 mm ply and hardboard which I have used in the past using this method have had no problems reaching 20k.
All the best.
Steve.
Good morning
everyone sorry my english
I wanted to know if any of you know the professional models for live Tectonic Audio model DML500 example.
Do you have any news on which speaker is fitted?
what else is the most powerful loudspeaker of this type on the market?
which one do you recommend for quality and extreme power applications?
Thank you
everyone sorry my english
I wanted to know if any of you know the professional models for live Tectonic Audio model DML500 example.
Do you have any news on which speaker is fitted?
what else is the most powerful loudspeaker of this type on the market?
which one do you recommend for quality and extreme power applications?
Thank you
SoundRight - Excellence in sound quality
Off hand,these are the only ones I can think of at the moment.
Pro gear obviously.
Steve.
Off hand,these are the only ones I can think of at the moment.
Pro gear obviously.
Steve.
I recently stumbled on these guys purSonic flat panel loudspeakers - invisible sound systems They have an 80W version but are more expensive.
Project update...
Spent some time assembling more permanent supports for my panels.
See attached photo clips.
Once again, assembled from stuff I had in the workshop.
I had four small Ikea cabinet handle pulls that made near perfect channels to hold the bottom of the panels.
I found the vertical supports on the street with the panels ;-)
They had iron rods secured inside them and served as counter weights to the panels, which would have swung up as kitchen cabinet doors.
Hollow aluminum tube, but not round. Rather shaped (in plan) from two equal arcs. The dimensions being just under 1" x 2 3/4".
I'll probably snake the speaker wires through them up to the exciters.
I have an inclination to spray urethane foam in the tubes to further stiffen and strengthen them.
Doing so might keep it from ringing at some frequency, but I I haven't noticed any problems/issues yet, so I don't know if I'll get to it or not.
I bolted the vertical support with zinc anchors through a 1" wooden base topped by a couple of covers from a pair of old Mac Pro serves I had up on a shelf.
One of the shots of the back of one of the bases shows the Apple logo.
Not certain what I'll do with the Hypex plate amps yet, I just bolted aluminum plates (that I cut out of an old cookie sheet) onto them with spacers so they's stand up on the back of the bases.
Not safe for pets or children, so I should probably do something. Suggestions appreciated.
A few bits to tidy up, but I've had so much fun with this build!
I just keep getting distracted, because when I turn them on after adjusting this or that, I end of spending a couple of hours listening to music.
_________
Time to do some measurements and post a couple of recordings.
More to come...
Spent some time assembling more permanent supports for my panels.
See attached photo clips.
Once again, assembled from stuff I had in the workshop.
I had four small Ikea cabinet handle pulls that made near perfect channels to hold the bottom of the panels.
I found the vertical supports on the street with the panels ;-)
They had iron rods secured inside them and served as counter weights to the panels, which would have swung up as kitchen cabinet doors.
Hollow aluminum tube, but not round. Rather shaped (in plan) from two equal arcs. The dimensions being just under 1" x 2 3/4".
I'll probably snake the speaker wires through them up to the exciters.
I have an inclination to spray urethane foam in the tubes to further stiffen and strengthen them.
Doing so might keep it from ringing at some frequency, but I I haven't noticed any problems/issues yet, so I don't know if I'll get to it or not.
I bolted the vertical support with zinc anchors through a 1" wooden base topped by a couple of covers from a pair of old Mac Pro serves I had up on a shelf.
One of the shots of the back of one of the bases shows the Apple logo.
Not certain what I'll do with the Hypex plate amps yet, I just bolted aluminum plates (that I cut out of an old cookie sheet) onto them with spacers so they's stand up on the back of the bases.
Not safe for pets or children, so I should probably do something. Suggestions appreciated.
A few bits to tidy up, but I've had so much fun with this build!
I just keep getting distracted, because when I turn them on after adjusting this or that, I end of spending a couple of hours listening to music.
_________
Time to do some measurements and post a couple of recordings.
More to come...
Attachments
Last edited:
good morning
I just meant the most powerful transducer available on the market.
I wanted to know if anyone has had the opportunity to hear these outdoor systems used for live concerts.
One last thing I would like to understand if those who delighted in building these systems did it because they consider it a better system than the traditional one or for other reasons that may be the low cost etc.
Basically what I would like to understand is if such a system could really replace traditional systems in live applications with live instruments with all the typical complications
thank you
I just meant the most powerful transducer available on the market.
I wanted to know if anyone has had the opportunity to hear these outdoor systems used for live concerts.
One last thing I would like to understand if those who delighted in building these systems did it because they consider it a better system than the traditional one or for other reasons that may be the low cost etc.
Basically what I would like to understand is if such a system could really replace traditional systems in live applications with live instruments with all the typical complications
thank you
Hey all. It's been a while. I fell off over the holidays and then had a few failed experiments. Here are a couple of photos of my most recent iteration. I call it the DART (DML Array with Ribbon Tweeter). I am still using the same drivers - DAEX32EP-4 for lows and DAEX25QLP-4 for mids and highs, supplemented by an embedded PTmini-6 tweeter. Substrates are 1/2" R-3 XPS (9.5" x 12") for the highs, and 1/2" EPS (9.5" x 28") for the lows. The panels were sanded and then got 2 coats of 1:1 water and glue. I am using 1/2" galvanized J-Trim and 1x2" finished pine for the frame.
I'm fairly pleased with this iteration, with a couple of caveats. The high panel sounds great. Even with it's small size it plays clean an very loud, and renders everything pretty well. Tori Amos's breathy vocals, pianos, and eclectic instrumentals, busy and rowdy tracks from Flogging Molly and the Transplants, Hip-Hop vocals from Brother Ali, Jedi Mind Tricks, NAS, synthwave tracks from Gunship and LazerHawk, Metal from Sick of it All, Hatebreed, Pantera, and New Wave stuff like Depeche Mode. It seems to hit on all cylinders. The Low and High panels are crossed over at 300 Hz @ 12db/oct. The ribbon tweeter doesn't add much to the sound besides a subtle crispness in the 8-12k range. I initially got it when I thought I was going to use 3mm birch ply, because I liked the warmth of it but it had dull sound above like 8khz. After comparing I found I preferred the clarity and efficiency of the XPS. Despite the extra frequency extension I felt it still lacked that sparkle and the ribbon tweeter helps add that while still offering that wide soundstage. Honestly, if I wanted to be a DML purist I probably wouldn't miss it too much.
Where I'm struggling is the low end. I think my EPS panel is too tall for it's width and stiffness. It gets some nasty buzzing at higher volumes and/or boosted low frequencies. Despite being well secured and damped around all 4 edges I think the suspended weight of the exciter and the lightness and flexibility of the EPS along that tall Y-axis is leading to excessive resonance across the panel when I push it. That panel really flexes. Adding a little damping by gently pressing a finger or two against the panel or the exciter helps resolve the ugly resonances but at the cost of volume and frequency muting.
It seems that my best option is to shorten the height of the panel, but I'm afraid of losing output. I am already having to add a little gain to the low channels to try to get my curve flat. That means when I move from my 4 channel, actively crossed-over bench-test rig to the final product with a passive crossover network designed for a 2 channel amp I am going to have to pad the high drivers to get a uniform sound. I will have to pull them down more if I lose further low-end SPL from reduced panel surface area. This is of course if I plan to keep the width of the panels as they are. For those wondering, the narrow dimensions were determined by the fact that I was only able to find 1/2" XPS in 12x12 inch sheets, and the "golden ratio" of length to width meant I had to cut down the sheet to 12x9.5. The width of the EPS just ended up following suit.
The other option would be to start from scratch and rotate the highs panel to be 12" wide. This would allow me a wider EPS panel that I could still resize to a more stable x:y ratio without losing too much surface/output. I am trying to keep the panels slimmer and closer to the dimensions of a sexy modern floor speaker, since not everyone has room for, or likes the look of, a huge panel in their room, including myself.
I tried different materials for the low panel, including thin birch ply, double walled carboard, 1 and 1/2" XPS, and 1" EPS and I found that the 1/2" EPS gave me the best balance of output and tone. To be clear, I am expecting panels of this size to need a small sub for satisfying full range. My current panel starts to roll off pretty sharply at about 125Hz, which is definitely higher than optimal. I'd like to see it stay flat until below 100 at least, and I don't think I'm going to get that in this iteration, at least not without adding a lot of high cut, or low gain if I can get the resonances under control.
So anyway, that's my rambling, mediocre tale. I'll keep you posted as things evolve. Input welcome, of course.
I'm fairly pleased with this iteration, with a couple of caveats. The high panel sounds great. Even with it's small size it plays clean an very loud, and renders everything pretty well. Tori Amos's breathy vocals, pianos, and eclectic instrumentals, busy and rowdy tracks from Flogging Molly and the Transplants, Hip-Hop vocals from Brother Ali, Jedi Mind Tricks, NAS, synthwave tracks from Gunship and LazerHawk, Metal from Sick of it All, Hatebreed, Pantera, and New Wave stuff like Depeche Mode. It seems to hit on all cylinders. The Low and High panels are crossed over at 300 Hz @ 12db/oct. The ribbon tweeter doesn't add much to the sound besides a subtle crispness in the 8-12k range. I initially got it when I thought I was going to use 3mm birch ply, because I liked the warmth of it but it had dull sound above like 8khz. After comparing I found I preferred the clarity and efficiency of the XPS. Despite the extra frequency extension I felt it still lacked that sparkle and the ribbon tweeter helps add that while still offering that wide soundstage. Honestly, if I wanted to be a DML purist I probably wouldn't miss it too much.
Where I'm struggling is the low end. I think my EPS panel is too tall for it's width and stiffness. It gets some nasty buzzing at higher volumes and/or boosted low frequencies. Despite being well secured and damped around all 4 edges I think the suspended weight of the exciter and the lightness and flexibility of the EPS along that tall Y-axis is leading to excessive resonance across the panel when I push it. That panel really flexes. Adding a little damping by gently pressing a finger or two against the panel or the exciter helps resolve the ugly resonances but at the cost of volume and frequency muting.
It seems that my best option is to shorten the height of the panel, but I'm afraid of losing output. I am already having to add a little gain to the low channels to try to get my curve flat. That means when I move from my 4 channel, actively crossed-over bench-test rig to the final product with a passive crossover network designed for a 2 channel amp I am going to have to pad the high drivers to get a uniform sound. I will have to pull them down more if I lose further low-end SPL from reduced panel surface area. This is of course if I plan to keep the width of the panels as they are. For those wondering, the narrow dimensions were determined by the fact that I was only able to find 1/2" XPS in 12x12 inch sheets, and the "golden ratio" of length to width meant I had to cut down the sheet to 12x9.5. The width of the EPS just ended up following suit.
The other option would be to start from scratch and rotate the highs panel to be 12" wide. This would allow me a wider EPS panel that I could still resize to a more stable x:y ratio without losing too much surface/output. I am trying to keep the panels slimmer and closer to the dimensions of a sexy modern floor speaker, since not everyone has room for, or likes the look of, a huge panel in their room, including myself.
I tried different materials for the low panel, including thin birch ply, double walled carboard, 1 and 1/2" XPS, and 1" EPS and I found that the 1/2" EPS gave me the best balance of output and tone. To be clear, I am expecting panels of this size to need a small sub for satisfying full range. My current panel starts to roll off pretty sharply at about 125Hz, which is definitely higher than optimal. I'd like to see it stay flat until below 100 at least, and I don't think I'm going to get that in this iteration, at least not without adding a lot of high cut, or low gain if I can get the resonances under control.
So anyway, that's my rambling, mediocre tale. I'll keep you posted as things evolve. Input welcome, of course.
Attachments
Went through a bunch of old notes from when I read the entire thread last year, and did a little comparison testing this morning after last night's post. Looks like I'm going to be starting from scratch. Referencing comments from DMLBES, Valeric, and Burnt Coil, I was certainly dealing with stiffness and anisotropic factors. I went ahead and tried to damp the panel some more last night and listened again this morning and I apparently went too far and the sound is just dead and terrible now. Oh well. Live and learn. At least I'm still happy with the high end.
Pixel1.
You might find this interesting.
Second try?
Can't get the link To work?
I'll try later.
To me,it is all about the sound!
From the first time I heard the sound of my first panels,I knew that they were producing something special,and that was with thin cc panels.
Originally I purchased 40 exciters thinking I was going to have at least 8 per 6x2ft panel.
I could have saved myself a lot of money had I known 1 exciter was all I needed !!!!
But then I would not have been able to build as many types of panels and to compare them.
Steve.
You might find this interesting.
Second try?
Can't get the link To work?
I'll try later.
To me,it is all about the sound!
From the first time I heard the sound of my first panels,I knew that they were producing something special,and that was with thin cc panels.
Originally I purchased 40 exciters thinking I was going to have at least 8 per 6x2ft panel.
I could have saved myself a lot of money had I known 1 exciter was all I needed !!!!
But then I would not have been able to build as many types of panels and to compare them.
Steve.
Last edited:
I live in the USA and all the XPS foam I find is pre-scored. Three lines are cut 3/4 through the foam across the length of foam. This allows the foam to be easily cracked into sizes that fit between wall studs. This significantly limits the size of a speaker you can build. Has anyone found a source of XPS that is not pre-scored?
What thickness? AFAIK non of the sheets at Home Depot or Lowes are scored, but that's all 1" Foamular 150 and up, from 2x2' sheets up to 4x8' sheets. I have only been able to find 1/2" xps R-3 online in 1x1' squares.
Pixel1.
It is difficult to tell which exciter is best from parts express as all the measurements are done on xps.
Xps seams to have a poor mid to high response,rolling off very early,so I can't tell what the hf response is for the exciter?
If someone has a good response plot of xps without eq this would be very helpful.
I believe the 25mm coil is supposed to have better hf than the 30mm coil but this needs to be confirmed?
Steve.
It is difficult to tell which exciter is best from parts express as all the measurements are done on xps.
Xps seams to have a poor mid to high response,rolling off very early,so I can't tell what the hf response is for the exciter?
If someone has a good response plot of xps without eq this would be very helpful.
I believe the 25mm coil is supposed to have better hf than the 30mm coil but this needs to be confirmed?
Steve.