Over the last couple of weeks, I could find small pockets of time where I could think/work on audio-related things. 🙂
I have been listening to the big 3-way system. I like it a lot..
But the question of how wider radiating speakers will sound with this system has come back to mind.
So I got a few things.. 🙂
One is the ATH A460D wide radiating waveguide printed in a single piece (except the base)
Then came home a pair of these guys 😉 (the Purifi 6.5inch midranges)
https://tinyurl.com/3juw856f
Then I cooked up a waveguide for the SB26CDC tweeter
A few more iterations are needed to see if they can be made anybetter, but this is how the hor polars look now
The overall 4 way system goal with the cardio dual 15inch cab + purifi mid + the above kind of tweeter in waveguide is a system roughly like this
and overall SPDI similar to or "better" than the dotted like in the below pic 🙂
I have been listening to the big 3-way system. I like it a lot..
But the question of how wider radiating speakers will sound with this system has come back to mind.
So I got a few things.. 🙂
One is the ATH A460D wide radiating waveguide printed in a single piece (except the base)
Then came home a pair of these guys 😉 (the Purifi 6.5inch midranges)
https://tinyurl.com/3juw856f
Then I cooked up a waveguide for the SB26CDC tweeter
A few more iterations are needed to see if they can be made anybetter, but this is how the hor polars look now
The overall 4 way system goal with the cardio dual 15inch cab + purifi mid + the above kind of tweeter in waveguide is a system roughly like this
and overall SPDI similar to or "better" than the dotted like in the below pic 🙂
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Some subjective impressions and plans going forward.. 🙂
I think it is already a little late in this thread to note down/summarize the subjective impressions I/my friends/family have had with few of the speakers and what my goals are going forward.
A few notes about my latest cardioid dual 15inch woofers + Exar 400 system first and then future plans. This one sounds really nice (to me).
1. It has a lot of same sound character that I associate with my desktop cardioid speakers (which was the main goal of this system, but then everything at larger scale and more dynamics handling capabilities). Clear vocals is what comes to mind first. Also a tiny bit less of the very high frequencies? Excess group delay + room impact might really matter at low frequencies. I have heard a few songs (like hotel California remastered version) where certain minute changes in bassline and drum notes are "blurred" on my system compared to my headphones. Other than that I like everything else about the bass and mids on this system. There is a punch and the subwoofer sometimes really growls when such a thing is there is the song (not the bottoming out kind and bass reflex port getting overloadrd kind of sound). It is really fun to listen to that.. 🙂
2. As with all horn-based systems I have built, there is a bit of "sit up and take notice" kind of sound. This is one the main impressions I have had with bigger horn based systems so far. Probably the direct sound is so clear and unadulterated that the brain really becomes alert and notices everything that is going on with music. It is a bit intense listening to music. To be honest, I kind of like it but not everyone does.
I had my wife and 2 friends listen and forced them to say their comments. My wife doesn't like horn based systems much. But she likes my cardioid desktop speakers with Sical coax+8inch sub. She says it sounds more relaxed and the horn based systems sound more hyper. Again that sit up and take notice sound. She says it makes her so alert she cant focus on other things in parallel. Like casual music listening while doing other things is not easy. Maybe it is an evolutionary aspect of our brain. When a bit too much direct sound is available, we really seem to focus in that. Maybe this is why studio monitor applications are really good with relatively high controlled directivity.
A friend of mine really liked the system. He went gaga about the overall clarity. Another friend commented that it is nice and all but a bit too intense that "it is getting in his ears" (he is more used to sound bars and bluetooth speakers). So, all in all, I think that horn based systems (that I have had) may be having a bit too much directivity contributing to these impressions. It definitely lets one peer into the soul of the recording but maybe that is not everyone wants/likes. This is one of main motivations in exploring controlled but wider directivity systems in future. The goal of testing the wider radiating A460D horn and the eventual goal of designing the purifi mid + shallow(er) waveguide is to see if it is really the directivity differences, the driver differences, or something else. Hence the reason of getting the purifi mid. To get the best drivers out there so that "bad driver" based impressions can be eliminated.
I am also very motivated by Kimmosto's comments about lower directivity and relaxed sound over at ASR forum. I really think he has nailed down this aspect. It is laughable to see some other people commenting on that thread with no experience building speakers, tuning them, listening to them and then correlating the objective with the subjective asking him to send some of his speakers to Amir to test..
3. I probably wont explore more in the MEH direction. With all my experiences so far, I feel like it will give me more of the same kind of sound that I may like but not others in the family/friends (except may be with some benefits of the point source?).
4. After listening to this system and comparing with the dual Satori WO24P woofers based bass mid module (crossed over around 1kHz), I have only one thing to say to the Satori system.. "Calm down"... 😀
I feel that It really tries grab one by th collar and tries to scream into the ears.. It definitely goes deep in the bass but the mids are not so relaxed. I dont know why yet (even though I had killed the breakup and flattened the response). Maybe something to do with the driver membrane composition and the associated effects in decay of sound from it or something.. This is only obvious on comparing this bass-mid module with my current bass mid module.. With the dual 15inch module, I like a little bit more "life" in the sound but quite a bit less than the Satoris.. This is the main reason I spent a fortune importing the Purifis. To get the best driver out there and cross it over between (approx 200Hz and 2.5kHz) in relatively low but controlled directivity mode.
I feel like the past 3 years at this has really been a 3 way design "study" than a 3 way speaker making fun attempt.. I have learnt so much about my preferences and others, a little bit about how to make good speakers and most importantly a little bit about how to correlate some objective aspects with mine and my family/friends preferences.
I think it is already a little late in this thread to note down/summarize the subjective impressions I/my friends/family have had with few of the speakers and what my goals are going forward.
A few notes about my latest cardioid dual 15inch woofers + Exar 400 system first and then future plans. This one sounds really nice (to me).
1. It has a lot of same sound character that I associate with my desktop cardioid speakers (which was the main goal of this system, but then everything at larger scale and more dynamics handling capabilities). Clear vocals is what comes to mind first. Also a tiny bit less of the very high frequencies? Excess group delay + room impact might really matter at low frequencies. I have heard a few songs (like hotel California remastered version) where certain minute changes in bassline and drum notes are "blurred" on my system compared to my headphones. Other than that I like everything else about the bass and mids on this system. There is a punch and the subwoofer sometimes really growls when such a thing is there is the song (not the bottoming out kind and bass reflex port getting overloadrd kind of sound). It is really fun to listen to that.. 🙂
2. As with all horn-based systems I have built, there is a bit of "sit up and take notice" kind of sound. This is one the main impressions I have had with bigger horn based systems so far. Probably the direct sound is so clear and unadulterated that the brain really becomes alert and notices everything that is going on with music. It is a bit intense listening to music. To be honest, I kind of like it but not everyone does.
I had my wife and 2 friends listen and forced them to say their comments. My wife doesn't like horn based systems much. But she likes my cardioid desktop speakers with Sical coax+8inch sub. She says it sounds more relaxed and the horn based systems sound more hyper. Again that sit up and take notice sound. She says it makes her so alert she cant focus on other things in parallel. Like casual music listening while doing other things is not easy. Maybe it is an evolutionary aspect of our brain. When a bit too much direct sound is available, we really seem to focus in that. Maybe this is why studio monitor applications are really good with relatively high controlled directivity.
A friend of mine really liked the system. He went gaga about the overall clarity. Another friend commented that it is nice and all but a bit too intense that "it is getting in his ears" (he is more used to sound bars and bluetooth speakers). So, all in all, I think that horn based systems (that I have had) may be having a bit too much directivity contributing to these impressions. It definitely lets one peer into the soul of the recording but maybe that is not everyone wants/likes. This is one of main motivations in exploring controlled but wider directivity systems in future. The goal of testing the wider radiating A460D horn and the eventual goal of designing the purifi mid + shallow(er) waveguide is to see if it is really the directivity differences, the driver differences, or something else. Hence the reason of getting the purifi mid. To get the best drivers out there so that "bad driver" based impressions can be eliminated.
I am also very motivated by Kimmosto's comments about lower directivity and relaxed sound over at ASR forum. I really think he has nailed down this aspect. It is laughable to see some other people commenting on that thread with no experience building speakers, tuning them, listening to them and then correlating the objective with the subjective asking him to send some of his speakers to Amir to test..
3. I probably wont explore more in the MEH direction. With all my experiences so far, I feel like it will give me more of the same kind of sound that I may like but not others in the family/friends (except may be with some benefits of the point source?).
4. After listening to this system and comparing with the dual Satori WO24P woofers based bass mid module (crossed over around 1kHz), I have only one thing to say to the Satori system.. "Calm down"... 😀
I feel that It really tries grab one by th collar and tries to scream into the ears.. It definitely goes deep in the bass but the mids are not so relaxed. I dont know why yet (even though I had killed the breakup and flattened the response). Maybe something to do with the driver membrane composition and the associated effects in decay of sound from it or something.. This is only obvious on comparing this bass-mid module with my current bass mid module.. With the dual 15inch module, I like a little bit more "life" in the sound but quite a bit less than the Satoris.. This is the main reason I spent a fortune importing the Purifis. To get the best driver out there and cross it over between (approx 200Hz and 2.5kHz) in relatively low but controlled directivity mode.
I feel like the past 3 years at this has really been a 3 way design "study" than a 3 way speaker making fun attempt.. I have learnt so much about my preferences and others, a little bit about how to make good speakers and most importantly a little bit about how to correlate some objective aspects with mine and my family/friends preferences.
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Yes the whole thread is about how CTA2034A does not fully elucidate... and then reader asks for sprinorama, listening in mono, in a random location, without descriptors or measurements of acoustics, without understanding of human preferences...
Sometimes one doesn't know what one doesn't know...
Please let me know when you're ready to take orders... 😏
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First, your systems look cool as heck.
I wonder which bothered you.
That is super cool.
There is group delay and then there is decay time. Group delay seems to be pretty forgiving. It seems like if the decay is off even 1/4 of a cycle of time your ear will hear it.
I wonder which bothered you.
Thanks @HeadShake 🙂
I will go through the articles you have posted..
So far I have just been focusing on the excess group delay (not the normal group delay) and impulse response/ETC as timing related parameters. Again motivated by Kimmosto's comments about the same. I honestly dont know what exactly caused what I heard in the bass but there really is a small, clearly hearable difference. I will try to find out..
This is how the excess group delay looks like on my current system. The blue line in the GD&Phase graph is above 4.4ms at 100Hz
With some FIR filtering that affects only the phase, I can get it down to like below
I will implement this filter, listen and then get back with clearer impressions about whether it is indeed the excess group delay that causes what I can hear.. 🙂
I am just waiting to get some more time to spend on this..
I will go through the articles you have posted..
So far I have just been focusing on the excess group delay (not the normal group delay) and impulse response/ETC as timing related parameters. Again motivated by Kimmosto's comments about the same. I honestly dont know what exactly caused what I heard in the bass but there really is a small, clearly hearable difference. I will try to find out..
This is how the excess group delay looks like on my current system. The blue line in the GD&Phase graph is above 4.4ms at 100Hz
With some FIR filtering that affects only the phase, I can get it down to like below
I will implement this filter, listen and then get back with clearer impressions about whether it is indeed the excess group delay that causes what I can hear.. 🙂
I am just waiting to get some more time to spend on this..
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Also try and make a measurement at your listening position (mic up with 90 deg cal file if you can). With a Frequency dependant window of 4 to 6 cycles or more you should be able to see clearly enough what you get at your seat. Below 200Hz the room is very much in control and anechoic corrections might actually make things worse. That is how you can end up laying the blame in the wrong direction.
Hi,
the Griesinger stuff 😀 I'm interested whether your remark of "sit up and take notes" is in context of your listening spot, or does it apply throughout the room? I mean, can you just move yourself further into the room and fix the perception in this regard? In other words, can you choose involving or relaxing sound by changing listening distance?
If you can, it would be aligned what I'm having with mine in which case I think you could and should tailor your system so that both perceptions are available easily. You could target relaxing sound for the sofa so most people can have it "problem free", but provide the involving sound in front of the sofa, so you and the gaga can take a chair, or just lean forward, when ever you feel like having an involving listen 😀
The thing is, or seems to be to me currently, one doesn't really have to choose either or because both perceptions could be available at will by single system. Switching between the two is just by recognizing at which listening distance perception changes and utilize that, move the listener a bit. Perhaps it's not that simple, but it really seems to be about whether brain pays involuntary attention or not.
I really think a playback system should be tailored to take advantage of this, make both states of auditory system available. Auditory system is very much part of the whole playback system, it's between what enters the ear canal and what pops out as a perception affecting it all and should be taken account when designing and adjusting playback systems. But, I'm really curious how you feel about this, does it make sense to you given your experience?
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https://www.researchgate.net/figure...loudspeakers-form-an-equilateral_fig5_2878420
Listening stereo triangle concept is practical, but with addition of room effect. Mastering studios are heavily damped to help mixing and many hifists aim to virtually sit there like the enineer/producer. Very high DI speakers make that possible in a more reverberant "normal" room. This is however a very restricted approach, because then off-spot sound will dramatically suffer from various interferences, causing spl and phase deviations, strange imaging and tonal colorations.
If we accept to loose a bit of stereo spatial image accuracy, we can use low and smooth directivity speakers and enjoy pleasant tonal balance in wider area of the room. And if we simply just pull the spot chair closer to speakers, stereo imaging gets more sharp because direct sound domination increases.
I have noticed that among my hifi friends I am in the other league, not so interested in precise imaging that direct sound domination gives. When friends visit me they "must" pull the chair 1 meter closer to speakers! My favourite spot has longer distance to a speaker than is between them, but (dipole) speakers are along the longest wall so sidewall reflections are attenuated and have long latency, imaging is still very good for my ears.
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Hi,
yeah this is only part of the thing in my view. Because the high DI and room acoustics might give wrong impression of the sound. What I mean is, depending on positioning, acoustics, directivity the sound might be "too dry" or otherwise problematic as you describe, when close enough so that brain pays attention, which is not a very good goal for a system. In this case people most likely revert to longer listening distance as you suggest.
Making sure brain doesn't pay attention is low hanging fruit and nice easy way to "fix the sound" because it's always available, just move further, but it's also important to understand it's not the only way to fix the sound. In my opinion right way to address this would be to tailor the system so that it's not dry/problematic sound, but nice and enveloping sound when listening at close enough listening distance. This is spacious and clear sound, not inside head or weird in any way but it's the magical HiFi sound to me. This is possible to do so that the sound is good also at the further listening distance I think, at least with a reasonable compromise.
Basically the ultimate target for me is to optimize the system for both: to have nice sound all around the room and very nice sound at the close proximity where brain actually pays attention and provides clarity and envelopment to perception. It feels like sound goes through my soul and tingles the whole existence. But to be able to get here one first and foremost needs to make sure auditory system is at state this is possible in the first place. Sitting too far fixes the perception yes, makes the sound bit hazy and spacious kinda, but it's not clear or enveloping and doesn't go too deep into soul. At least in my experience and is also what Griesinger says that there cannot be clarity and envelopment without stream separation. Reverting to long listening distance prevents you ever have the best tingly all encompassing sound in my experience because brain is at state it's not happening no matter what the system is otherwise like.
But, as evident, the involving sound is not for everyone because some just like listen more relaxed and have the brain not too much involved. I like to listen further too, most of the time, but it's just lot's of fun to get bit closer and get really good sound that takes full attention. Power is to be able to change the perception at will, per mood for example.
It's interesting topic, people likely give very different weight on what is important and what is not, what is good imaging for example. Good positioning and compatible acoustics and speakers is not something that is rarely come across by accident I think, but requires some effort to notice what happens in perception and how to manipulate it further. Especially in a domestic context where listening position and speaker positioning might be dictated by practical matters. Anyway, point is to arrange a system so that one can get the perception they want, what ever that is. I hope everyone enjoys their systems, to get most of the music 🙂
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Hi @tmuikku,
I have tried out few toe in positions for the speakers and now they are roughly 45 degrees toed in, which I find good in my situation.
Th Greisinger effect I can clearly perceive with my speakers.. It is exactly like you said.. In my listening situation, I usually lean forwards by about 20-30cm, I can clearly hear the increase in clarity. For more relaxed listening, I lean back on the sofa.. Now imaging gets slightly hazy. But the effect with the big horn system is not very dramatic. Wherever I go in the room or even in the next room, there is plenty of clarity left in what I hear.
In the case of the smaller cardioid speakers, the effects are more drastic. In my typical 1m away listening position there is plenty of clarity and good imaging but when I move back my about 1m, everything suffers.. But then I also dont know if it is due to lot of additional detrimental reflections coming in.. If I compare the sound from 2m away vs 1m away, there is clearly identifiable difference in clarity and imaging. But the loss in these aspects happens gradually as distance increases.
I think I am unnecessaryily increasing the word count here Let me try to summarise.
1. Big horn 3way cardioidish (above 100Hz) system with higher directivity above 1kHz: There is easily percievable increased clarity from anywhere in the house. Imaging suffers if I am very far away from speakers like 5m+ away. But imaging is really good from listening position 2+ m away. Soundstage mostly extends between the speakers (2+ m space between them) and slightly beyond the speakers. By reducing listening distance from 2m to 1.8m, there is even more increase in clarity. In all situations, even from the kitchen separated by concrete walls, the system calls the attention of the brain. Watching movies and TV programmes on this system is fun.. The vocals just pop. Even the fireworks kind of sounds in some movies is really good.
2. Cardioidish (above 250Hz) 3way desktop system: 90+ percentage of times, I have listened from max 1 m away from speakers. Since I am very close to speakers, there is very good imaging and clarity. When I am 2+ m away, everything suffers much more than other system. When in the kitchen, it sounds very hazy, background music kind of relaxed sound.. My wife likes this kind of sound. I like both kinds of sound.
Please note that these are all relative.. It is not like night and day differences for me. But it sort of is for my wife.. 😀
A lot of the perception might be from my listening situation (proximity of boundaries and furniture and other objects in room).
I have tried out few toe in positions for the speakers and now they are roughly 45 degrees toed in, which I find good in my situation.
Th Greisinger effect I can clearly perceive with my speakers.. It is exactly like you said.. In my listening situation, I usually lean forwards by about 20-30cm, I can clearly hear the increase in clarity. For more relaxed listening, I lean back on the sofa.. Now imaging gets slightly hazy. But the effect with the big horn system is not very dramatic. Wherever I go in the room or even in the next room, there is plenty of clarity left in what I hear.
In the case of the smaller cardioid speakers, the effects are more drastic. In my typical 1m away listening position there is plenty of clarity and good imaging but when I move back my about 1m, everything suffers.. But then I also dont know if it is due to lot of additional detrimental reflections coming in.. If I compare the sound from 2m away vs 1m away, there is clearly identifiable difference in clarity and imaging. But the loss in these aspects happens gradually as distance increases.
I think I am unnecessaryily increasing the word count here Let me try to summarise.
1. Big horn 3way cardioidish (above 100Hz) system with higher directivity above 1kHz: There is easily percievable increased clarity from anywhere in the house. Imaging suffers if I am very far away from speakers like 5m+ away. But imaging is really good from listening position 2+ m away. Soundstage mostly extends between the speakers (2+ m space between them) and slightly beyond the speakers. By reducing listening distance from 2m to 1.8m, there is even more increase in clarity. In all situations, even from the kitchen separated by concrete walls, the system calls the attention of the brain. Watching movies and TV programmes on this system is fun.. The vocals just pop. Even the fireworks kind of sounds in some movies is really good.
2. Cardioidish (above 250Hz) 3way desktop system: 90+ percentage of times, I have listened from max 1 m away from speakers. Since I am very close to speakers, there is very good imaging and clarity. When I am 2+ m away, everything suffers much more than other system. When in the kitchen, it sounds very hazy, background music kind of relaxed sound.. My wife likes this kind of sound. I like both kinds of sound.
Please note that these are all relative.. It is not like night and day differences for me. But it sort of is for my wife.. 😀
A lot of the perception might be from my listening situation (proximity of boundaries and furniture and other objects in room).
Yeah I bet many people never pay any attention to this stuff so it's completely relative 😀 but, I think necessary to take into account if one is playing around with stereo. Thanks for the reply!
ps. In general, bass changing through out the room is one big of an issue, which makes the system balance change quite dramatically from place to place. Even in other rooms bass can be either overwhelming or weak. In general, I think lean bass is more relaxing to listen and "better sounding" than overwhelming one which gets quite boring quite fast.
This is interesting as well, while it cannot be from the "griesinger" stuff because it's all reflections arriving to ear, it's still something. Have you tried to experiment with it, does it capture your attention in a good way or in a distracting way? I mostly feel taking attention from another room is something distracting. For example at certain position at kitchen table the bass is really overwhelming and annoying, taking attention in that sense. But, I'm very sensitive to this because I'm interested about the sound in general. I'm not sure if anyone else in the family ever pays any attention, other than when movies have explosions and so on, the fun stuff 😀
ps. In general, bass changing through out the room is one big of an issue, which makes the system balance change quite dramatically from place to place. Even in other rooms bass can be either overwhelming or weak. In general, I think lean bass is more relaxing to listen and "better sounding" than overwhelming one which gets quite boring quite fast.
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I think it is what griesinger mentions as intelligibility, and is very sensitive to phase/ time distortions. With my system i have the same impression, and my wife mentioned it as well. The sounds are produced as a coherent whole with minimal distortion in the time domain.
A low DI speaker pair will actually make more phase/spl deviations off-spot than highly directive, but they are so diffuse that diffusion masks and sort of smoothes out audible problems. At least per my view and experience. Room and location of speakers+listener have perhaps more to do than speaker type, but in general low DI speakers are more sensitive to room/placement than those with high DI.
This is a very complex issue and many academic theoretical and in situ experiments and studies/papers have been done. Live speech/music intelligibility (in general psychoacoustics) has been studied more than just stereo or multichannel reproduction.
Prof. David Griesinger has been mentioned, here some links to those who don't know
http://www.davidgriesinger.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuc4vki_YQFfY7oCfKSm5YA
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/David-Griesinger-2
Psychoacoustics
https://www.aalto.fi/en/department-...ics/communication-acoustics-spatial-sound-and
This is a very complex issue and many academic theoretical and in situ experiments and studies/papers have been done. Live speech/music intelligibility (in general psychoacoustics) has been studied more than just stereo or multichannel reproduction.
Prof. David Griesinger has been mentioned, here some links to those who don't know
http://www.davidgriesinger.com/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuc4vki_YQFfY7oCfKSm5YA
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/David-Griesinger-2
Psychoacoustics
https://www.aalto.fi/en/department-...ics/communication-acoustics-spatial-sound-and
No it's not Griesinger's stuff. And i experienced it with the best loudspeakers i've heard, being horn or not:
Musician looking at their instruments when you hit playback looking for the people playing it, talking to musicians thinking they are in control room when they sit in the studio....
I think this is a mix of different things which give this: directionality ( it help for sure) and respect of phase in a given freq range, probably low distortion and low noise floor which gives this effect. Not only high directivity as it heard it happening with typical 6,5"+1" too.
I don't see this as an issue but it surely take your attention to details in audio. If you only want casual background music then it's not the kind of system you need. If you want to immerse/deep dive into music then it's very rewarding.
I find Vineeth's friends comments funny that the effect is 'too much'. Already heard same things in audio engineer gathering about loudspeakers having this same quality. Made me smile.
Yeah, could be multiple things like good dynamic capability in addition to other things. Real world sounds are quite loud.
Thinkin about griesinger stuff, depending on where the door is and how system is positioned and whether it's mono or panned sound and so on, there might be quite direct path from speaker(s) to ear in another room, perhaps through one or few specular reflections and it could still closely resemble "direct sound" i think, before rest of the noise hits ear. Level of noise would depend on DI and acoustics just like listening in the same room. 🤔
Thinkin about griesinger stuff, depending on where the door is and how system is positioned and whether it's mono or panned sound and so on, there might be quite direct path from speaker(s) to ear in another room, perhaps through one or few specular reflections and it could still closely resemble "direct sound" i think, before rest of the noise hits ear. Level of noise would depend on DI and acoustics just like listening in the same room. 🤔
In a study of Griesinger he showed that phase shifts in higher frequencies reduces intelligibility of spoken word f.i.
Key in Intelligibility is the correct reproduction of the transients that start and end a spoken word or tone from an flute, violin etc.
For our western language it are the consonants basically. The vowels give the tone or colour.
The transients are formed by the harmonics. So it is actually in upper midrange.
Key in Intelligibility is the correct reproduction of the transients that start and end a spoken word or tone from an flute, violin etc.
For our western language it are the consonants basically. The vowels give the tone or colour.
The transients are formed by the harmonics. So it is actually in upper midrange.
Thanks everyone for contributing to the discussion..
It definitely helps to get some thoughts about this.. 🙂
The room looks like below. The middle of that sofa is usually where I sit.
Behind the sofa is one of the walls that separates the kitchen from this room.
For a bit more context. This is how the room looks from a bit away
That nearest side wall to the right is about 3m away. On the left side is a glass sliding door covered with 2 layers of curtains.
Still, I don't have many problems with image shifting significantly to one side (which I had with my Satori woofers + SB15CAC mid + tweeter system in another house)
@tmuikku: From my point of view the effect is not at all detrimental but involves one more in the music playback. But not everyone likes it. I also haven't had many bass problems with this speaker system yet moving around in the room. I think I have an 88Hz bass peak which I had brought down with EQ in the Satori system. But didn't bother to EQ in this one yet.
I thought I could capture something about the sit-up and take-notice effect by recording speakers.
But as usual it turned out more or less a pointless attempt.
Interestingly, while watching some videos, I came across a similar kind of effect when listening & comparing these two speakers' recordings once the guy in the video stopped moving in the middle of the video.
Now, the differences in these above recordings could be due to a multitude of other factors as well, primarily the "voicing" (and associated frequency response differences of the two speakers) and the tracks being played in these videos being not exactly the same but two variations of the same music. But this is the closest I could find regarding this aspect in video recordings..
It definitely helps to get some thoughts about this.. 🙂
The room looks like below. The middle of that sofa is usually where I sit.
Behind the sofa is one of the walls that separates the kitchen from this room.
For a bit more context. This is how the room looks from a bit away
That nearest side wall to the right is about 3m away. On the left side is a glass sliding door covered with 2 layers of curtains.
Still, I don't have many problems with image shifting significantly to one side (which I had with my Satori woofers + SB15CAC mid + tweeter system in another house)
@tmuikku: From my point of view the effect is not at all detrimental but involves one more in the music playback. But not everyone likes it. I also haven't had many bass problems with this speaker system yet moving around in the room. I think I have an 88Hz bass peak which I had brought down with EQ in the Satori system. But didn't bother to EQ in this one yet.
I thought I could capture something about the sit-up and take-notice effect by recording speakers.
But as usual it turned out more or less a pointless attempt.
Interestingly, while watching some videos, I came across a similar kind of effect when listening & comparing these two speakers' recordings once the guy in the video stopped moving in the middle of the video.
Now, the differences in these above recordings could be due to a multitude of other factors as well, primarily the "voicing" (and associated frequency response differences of the two speakers) and the tracks being played in these videos being not exactly the same but two variations of the same music. But this is the closest I could find regarding this aspect in video recordings..
I don't know about significance of Griesinger works about what we are talking about, in fact i doubt about it. If we were talking about a defined listening location giving the effect, or takes within a given location of mic and room then yeah, but here it's not.
And my own experience shown it's unrelated either.
When mixing and mastering we usually do the 'listen from another room' trick. It gives a bit of perspective about the important things that must be heard from not optimal conditions/locations.
If mix is balanced you usually hear everything. Of course you don't have the stereo presentation.
From Vineeth comments i wonder if this 'effect' does not come from the lack of ER from the front wall. After all his other horn system doesn't seems to exhibit the same? And it's more conventional in the directivity behavior.
With meh and cardio there should be few front wall early reflections in the 200/1,5khz range ( where i suspect there is something at play).
Next time i am able to get near my mic, I am going to measure the speakers from listening spot.. 🙂 just so that I can separate out identify usual suspects like presence and absence of reflections..
I nice and easy way to evaluate stereo imaging is to play mono music or speech (mono signal from both speakers)! The image should hold together and a little shift of listener position should not destruct it, just make a small shift. Common problems are s's coming from either side and low notes or low male speech filling the room diffusely.