Here is the above mentioned kind of graphs for the 3 way 🙂
Now the corresponding ones for the 2 way:
(There is some phase issue with that 90 degree measurement)
Wow.. looking at them this way, the 2 way response does look nicer to the eyes 😱
Now the corresponding ones for the 2 way:
(There is some phase issue with that 90 degree measurement)
Wow.. looking at them this way, the 2 way response does look nicer to the eyes 😱
Getting 10 dB of directivity (i.e. DI) at 1k, rising to 12 dB at 10k... that is A LOT of directivity, and it will have a very different perspective than a wide dispersion system, even one which uses a waveguide like the 3-way system. Vineeth - you are so wise to experiment in this way, to find out what you like, and what works well in your room.
j.
j.
Yeah everyone should do it, only way to get toward better sound is to listen with own ears in own/various places and experiment away to form an opinion 🙂
@hifijim and @tmuikku : Thankyou 🙂
Somehow after doing all the configs i have done so far i keep on liking the CD+horn combo, the current one, easily being the best.
To think that i still have to optimize this system more in terms of technical perfection in terms of the graphs, i am pretty much confident that i like CD+horn with woofers kind of setup the best so far. I just feel longing to hear more and more of this system.
I dont know what it is.. 😀 whether it is high directivity or some thing related to better integration of drivers or something else. There is a sense of ease for this configuration in playing music. It just goes crazy loud with no identifiable distortion and then some more.. 😀 Even the single speaker playing seems to pull everything out of music. Big enough soundstage, dynamics etc. From above 2m to15m (limited by size of home), I hear the same kind of sound in terms of tonal balance.
Still early days probably to comment about BMS vs Peerless CDs but i feel that is BMS CD is cleaner sounding and would pretty easily and comfortably better the Peerless CD i had used earlier atleast in terms of what i hear if not the technical capabilities 🙂
Somehow after doing all the configs i have done so far i keep on liking the CD+horn combo, the current one, easily being the best.
To think that i still have to optimize this system more in terms of technical perfection in terms of the graphs, i am pretty much confident that i like CD+horn with woofers kind of setup the best so far. I just feel longing to hear more and more of this system.
I dont know what it is.. 😀 whether it is high directivity or some thing related to better integration of drivers or something else. There is a sense of ease for this configuration in playing music. It just goes crazy loud with no identifiable distortion and then some more.. 😀 Even the single speaker playing seems to pull everything out of music. Big enough soundstage, dynamics etc. From above 2m to15m (limited by size of home), I hear the same kind of sound in terms of tonal balance.
Still early days probably to comment about BMS vs Peerless CDs but i feel that is BMS CD is cleaner sounding and would pretty easily and comfortably better the Peerless CD i had used earlier atleast in terms of what i hear if not the technical capabilities 🙂
Here is a sample recording just for fun.. 🙂
Warning: May not be the type of music that everyone likes.. 😀
Also I am just playing the song from youtube. No fancy source material..
Warning: May not be the type of music that everyone likes.. 😀
Also I am just playing the song from youtube. No fancy source material..
Veena and guitar on the intro?
Interesting mix. Who is it?
I can't comment on the sound of loudspeakers through youtube but i think i can identify the low imprint of room, acoustic treatment and directivity of your system give a good match for my preference.
Is there a lot of timbral change when you move out of sweet spot ( lateral movement)?
Interesting mix. Who is it?
I can't comment on the sound of loudspeakers through youtube but i think i can identify the low imprint of room, acoustic treatment and directivity of your system give a good match for my preference.
Is there a lot of timbral change when you move out of sweet spot ( lateral movement)?
Last edited:
@krivium, it has guitar, violin and flute + vocals anyway. I guess veena too in some places but not sure. 🙂
Language is Malayalam: My native language, from Kerala. 🙂
Here is the original video..
Is there a lot of timbral change when you move out of sweet spot ( lateral movement)?
Actually, that is the fun part. It stays very similar when I sit down in one place or move around in the horizontal plane around the speaker. Or that is how I am perceiving it as of now. Need to get more trained to identify artefacts. 🙂
Language is Malayalam: My native language, from Kerala. 🙂
Here is the original video..
Is there a lot of timbral change when you move out of sweet spot ( lateral movement)?
Actually, that is the fun part. It stays very similar when I sit down in one place or move around in the horizontal plane around the speaker. Or that is how I am perceiving it as of now. Need to get more trained to identify artefacts. 🙂
Inspired by @krivium 's question about timbral changes and my curiosity about effects of directivity while moving around, I tried an experiment and tried to move in the horizontal plane in a constant radius (2-ish metres) arc (roughly). I can hear timbral changes at far off-axis angles, I think. 😀
I tried to capture it in a video here. 🙂
I tried to capture it in a video here. 🙂
Last edited:
I think I’ve groaned in the past about moving 6 times in 8 years. The upside of this is that I’ve had first hand experience in how rooms (acoustics) changes sounds and thus preferences.
When are you moving house Vineeth? It will be interesting to hear how things go, and your experience with your speakers in your new place.
When are you moving house Vineeth? It will be interesting to hear how things go, and your experience with your speakers in your new place.
Vineeth,
2 observations:
_i think you are too far away from loudspeaker: from visual cues and the recording you were probably located past critical distance of your room.
In this video as you move i felt the 'room sound' dominate the direct sound, iow we listen more to your room than the loudspeaker.
Here is a calculator to help you determine critical distance approximately ( your room seems to be open on one end and it'll change things a bit in reality) :
As it is in french:
_ first box is room dimensions
_second is reverb duration @ 2khz
_third is loudspeaker's directivity with horizontal and vertical coverage
http://www.rt60.net/dist_crit.htm#:~:text=La distance critique est la,critique de la source sonore.
_ with music it is less obvious to spot frequency response change than with a static source like pink noise.
If you are tempted to redo the test keep the same spl (level) as you have in this video, the mic seems to tolerate it well. So as you'll probably have to move closer to loudspeakers maybe turn it down a bit.
As you want to evaluate your system (and room) you could try the tests you will find there ( Ledr is often interesting):
https://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_index.php
@tktran303: I am moving from my current house by next month's end. If all goes well, I will be moving into a smaller house than I currently live in. It has wooden floors, and the living room (where the speakers will be placed) has one side open, and the other opens into a balcony through a big glass door. In short, it will be a completely new set of nightmares acoustically, I think.. 😀 Also I am really worried about all these moving things from one place to the other and related troubles. I just hope the packing and moving guys properly take care of all these things. I have seen them throwing around cartons with big 'handle with care' stickers on them. I just can imagine how you are able to move to 6 places in 8 years.. 😱 I can't even think of moving once in 4-5 years.
@krivium: Thanks a lot for these links. I will try these out and report back. 🙂
@krivium: Thanks a lot for these links. I will try these out and report back. 🙂
You need to pack the important things properly yourself or at least watch them do it. I moved house every two years from the city to the farthest reaches of the outback and most places in between. I only let them pack my audio stuff once, because that was enough to never let them do it again.
@fluid: Thanks.. 🙂
In fact, I am thinking of packing and moving all my audio stuff except the Satori cabinets in my car, even if it takes a couple or more extra back-and-forth trips. Luckily, the new house isn't that far away. The bass cabinets are really heavy, and I won't be able to carry them around myself. As you suggested, I will let the packing guys handle it while watching them throughout the process and ensuring they do it properly. I am considering taking the drivers out of the cabinet and transporting them separately just to avoid any potential heartbreaks due to some mishaps 😀
In fact, I am thinking of packing and moving all my audio stuff except the Satori cabinets in my car, even if it takes a couple or more extra back-and-forth trips. Luckily, the new house isn't that far away. The bass cabinets are really heavy, and I won't be able to carry them around myself. As you suggested, I will let the packing guys handle it while watching them throughout the process and ensuring they do it properly. I am considering taking the drivers out of the cabinet and transporting them separately just to avoid any potential heartbreaks due to some mishaps 😀
I tried out the RT60-based calculator to find out the critical distance. These are room & system parameters I used
Horizontal and vertical dispersion values I entered based on below plots from the speaker. Vertical might be slightly wrong as the horn is a little bit different in its vertical profile compared to the horizontal. But around 2kHz I think it will be close enough
I entered the RT60 measurement at 2khz based on the following plot
My room is about 80% closed and 20 percent open (roughly) on one side ( as seen in below photo take from one corner of the room)
The calculator says 1.79m is the critical distance. In that case I will try out with moving around in a 1.5m arc. I will also try to carry out other tests.. They look like fun 😀
Horizontal and vertical dispersion values I entered based on below plots from the speaker. Vertical might be slightly wrong as the horn is a little bit different in its vertical profile compared to the horizontal. But around 2kHz I think it will be close enough
I entered the RT60 measurement at 2khz based on the following plot
My room is about 80% closed and 20 percent open (roughly) on one side ( as seen in below photo take from one corner of the room)
The calculator says 1.79m is the critical distance. In that case I will try out with moving around in a 1.5m arc. I will also try to carry out other tests.. They look like fun 😀
Guys, a video is not the right way to evaluate a loudspeaker's sound. I have tried at least three different cams, mobile phone, pocket camera and Zoom H2 with stereo mics. They all sound different and exaggerate room sound, from what they sound with ears. "Best" sound from a loudspeaker in video comes from very near, but that is not possible to do with large multiways and it misses baffle step...
@Juhazi: I completely agree with you regarding recording sound not resembling what we hear.. 🙂
I post these videos partly for fun and partly because my new phone captures videos better than my old one.. 😀 and of late I am finding that it is able to show some relative differences similar to what I perceived in the room especially with this higher directivity speaker... 🙂
I post these videos partly for fun and partly because my new phone captures videos better than my old one.. 😀 and of late I am finding that it is able to show some relative differences similar to what I perceived in the room especially with this higher directivity speaker... 🙂
That is a good idea if you can, some of my moves involved 4 day road trips between destinations so I learned to pack well. I had movers move my line arrays between states, I wrapped them in some spare duvet covers, and blankets to insulate them from the shock of moving and it worked. Spare pillows stuffed inside a cardboard box works well too. I bought some foam mattress toppers that were quite cheap to wrap up and squeeze into the gaps to stop things rolling around inside.
I diasagree they exagerate room sound, i think they highlight room sound without our brain adapting and making room acoustic's disapear. It's the inverse of cocktail party effect where once you use mic you can't focus on any conversation anymore as mic seems to 'wash away' cues you rely on in real life for it to happen ..
I totally agree it's not a way to evaluate loudspeakers ( mainly because critical distance is never took into account on video, motly because people ignore it exist, and of course the reason you gave) and it's not what i'm trying to do with my question to Vineeth: it's the interaction between room and loudspeaker directivity which i'm interested in and for this i think a recording is ok.
Stereo micing techniques does change rendering too: a/b is not monocompatible so there'll be phase issues,
X/Y and M/S use unidirectional mic so imply proximity effect... each kind will have a different rendering... And on fixed couple as in zoom you can't modify Sound Recording Angle either... binaural is the less harmful method but require gear and headphone evaluation.
Mono omni seems still the easiest way to evaluate.
Last edited: