@fluid, now I have one other doubt. What size driver is this horn(+CD, if not using the peerless I have, even if I go for a BMS 4550 1inch CD) suitable for?
Is it good to cross around/less than 2kHz with a 7inch driver like this: https://hificompass.com/en/reviews/wavecor-wf182bd03-midwoofer
or something else?
Is it good to cross around/less than 2kHz with a 7inch driver like this: https://hificompass.com/en/reviews/wavecor-wf182bd03-midwoofer
or something else?
Speaking about mistakes, I again made another mistake above (I didn't uncheck the sphere baffle step option during merging). I think I am on a mistakes parade recently with this driver.
Here is a comparison between above WO24P responses and the one I just created:
On the left is the above responses of WO24P.
On the right is the one I just created with proper diffraction model applied to nearfield response.
What prompted me to think about this is the sort of unnatural drop of about 10dB between 100 Hz and 1kHz. In the right plot, with things taken care properly, I see a 6ish dB drop in the right hand side plot, which also makes better sense, I guess..
I am definitely going to revisit everything again..
The manual says
"Delay of low frequency part is calculated automatically on transition frequency change but can be adjusted manually"
I take it to be the calculated delay between the two measurements that are being merged, does that correspond to the difference in distance between far field and near field that you used?
The maximum help from the waveguide stops at about 1.5K and gets less from that point down, if the driver itself does not have significant output lower down it will be hard to go much below 1.2K like it is with the peerless. The directivity control will also start to crap out there too so if you are aiming for matched patterns the crossover frequency will play a big part in what size woofer works best. The 4550 has a lot of xmax and natural low frequency output so it is more flexible in how it can be equalized to fit.
The Satori is really a dedicated woofer that happens to go reasonably high, it worked better with the 1.4" driver and horn lower in xo frequency.
Narrow down some of the constraints and the right answer will be easier to give.
Right, it's the fundamental eigenmode, so a deep null and if you center it horizontally to be in its deepest null (assuming a typical box'd room) it's as close as you can come to a free field indoors without significant room treatment.
So this is my best effort 2 way with this combination of drivers so far
But now things seem to make better sense than before in terms of the driver responses
I am going to listen to this one next..
@fluid : Thanks. As always, your suggestion regarding the delay in merger tool seems to make the most sense in the context of this set up..
That delay corresponding to 95.6cm as shown below seems to be pretty close to the difference between the distances at which farfield response was taken (mic about 1m away from baffle surface) minus the distance at which the nearfield response was taken (mic about 0.6cm away from woofer dustcap).
I have redone the woofer responses again and the most updated version of this project is uploaded here..
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FY02wACXyVWB7Nl8GQnKbMRyeVxqxIVW/view?usp=sharing
But now things seem to make better sense than before in terms of the driver responses
I am going to listen to this one next..
@fluid : Thanks. As always, your suggestion regarding the delay in merger tool seems to make the most sense in the context of this set up..
That delay corresponding to 95.6cm as shown below seems to be pretty close to the difference between the distances at which farfield response was taken (mic about 1m away from baffle surface) minus the distance at which the nearfield response was taken (mic about 0.6cm away from woofer dustcap).
I have redone the woofer responses again and the most updated version of this project is uploaded here..
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FY02wACXyVWB7Nl8GQnKbMRyeVxqxIVW/view?usp=sharing
I just heard this configuration of crossover implemented in the system (with a single woofer for now)
This is what I got at my listening position 2+m away (1/6 octave smoothed):
Pic of the speaker as I was hearing it
I can definitely say that this is awesomely good to hear.. Even in mono, this is the best I have heard so far.
I guess there is something about CD+horn that I like. If I am asked to say one or two words about the sound, it is natural and effortless and dynamic..
I am definitely going to make this system... atleast as an add on system along with anything else I make..
This is what I got at my listening position 2+m away (1/6 octave smoothed):
Pic of the speaker as I was hearing it
I can definitely say that this is awesomely good to hear.. Even in mono, this is the best I have heard so far.
I guess there is something about CD+horn that I like. If I am asked to say one or two words about the sound, it is natural and effortless and dynamic..
I am definitely going to make this system... atleast as an add on system along with anything else I make..
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I couldn't resist uploading a video even though it is nowhere close to what i am hearing live.. In the recording there is no bass to speak off.. Actually when those bass lines come, there is enough energy present in thr room to cause windows to vibrate.. But it is not felt in yhe recording. Then the voice seems muffled in the recording but seems like live in real..
I should really buy some recording device that does this job better..
Here is the recording anyway..
I should really buy some recording device that does this job better..
Here is the recording anyway..
Congratilations Vineeth!So the distortion issue turned out to be due to the amplifier I had used. I changed the amp and things are fine now..
Thanks everyone for the pointers.
I have been able to hear the 3 way (All SB drivers) system for little bit of time now casually. I need to listen more to identify any faults with it. I also need to get the adaptors for mounting my Wavecor driver on the cabinet. That is still a little bit of time away.
In other news, there is something I had left halfway some time back. It was to take the measurements of the ST260 KVAR horn. The accidents due to measurements set up and 3D printed horn getting damaged prevented me from continuing that experiment at the time. Well now I have printed in once more and did the measurements.
(The following content is a bit of repetition of the post I made in the ATH thread but still posting it here for the sake of continuity if this thread)
These are raw horizontal and vertical polar (4ms gated, mic 1m away from horn outer surface) measurements of the ST260 KVAR on Peerless DFM 2544R00 compression driver.
Pic of the measurement set up (This is what I thought is the vertical polar measuring configuration of the horn)
View attachment 1103270
Horizontal polars
View attachment 1103271
Vertical polars
View attachment 1103272
Temporary system set up
View attachment 1103273
I will create a VituixCAD project with all this data loaded soon and post it here..
Thanks
Vineeth
Do you have some measurement of distortion ? Thanks .
The past 1 hour, I have been continuously listening to music. At the moment I am just overjoyed..
Feels like I have found some kind of sound that I have been searching for all this time over the course of several different speaker configurations and hundreds of measurement sessions.. I haven't even dialed in any room EQ. But still there is everything..
There is bass, there is treble, and there are natural-like vocals. That single Satori woofer easily shakes windows and everything around.. Deep rumbles and everything.. I just want to listen more and more of this..
The newly made woofer measurements seem to make significant differences to the sound and the horn does something else altogether.. I am going to make 2 of these horns and properly finish it with paint and filler material and all. and then I am going to refine this set up to its best possible.
To anyone in doubt about making the ST260 or similar horns, I only have this to say. Make it, measure it, listen to it partnered to a good midwoofer and then decide for yourself..
Feels like I have found some kind of sound that I have been searching for all this time over the course of several different speaker configurations and hundreds of measurement sessions.. I haven't even dialed in any room EQ. But still there is everything..
There is bass, there is treble, and there are natural-like vocals. That single Satori woofer easily shakes windows and everything around.. Deep rumbles and everything.. I just want to listen more and more of this..
The newly made woofer measurements seem to make significant differences to the sound and the horn does something else altogether.. I am going to make 2 of these horns and properly finish it with paint and filler material and all. and then I am going to refine this set up to its best possible.
To anyone in doubt about making the ST260 or similar horns, I only have this to say. Make it, measure it, listen to it partnered to a good midwoofer and then decide for yourself..
I tried a little bit more response shaping with the 2.5 way crossover, especially tried to adjust the phase matching between the two woofers compared to earlier through some delay. But woofer break up is only about 30 dB attenuated..
Here is my latest iteration of crossover:
Here is my latest iteration of crossover:
That looks like really good response.
Have you tried a traditional 2.5 filter topology? This is where the filtering (and level) on the two woofers is identical except that the lower woofer has a first order rolloff starting somewhere in the upper bass. Both woofers play equal in the bass range, and the lower woofer first order rolloff compensates for the baffle step. This topology tends to get the most bass performance out of a pair of drivers.
I don't know if it would improve your system or not, but the conventional/traditional is always worth trying.
One nice aspect of your filter is that the upper woofer has ~ 2 dB less output in the deep bass, which means its IM distortion performance will be slightly improved in the midrange. The lower woofer caries more of the deep bass task, and it contributes less in the midrange.
j.
Have you tried a traditional 2.5 filter topology? This is where the filtering (and level) on the two woofers is identical except that the lower woofer has a first order rolloff starting somewhere in the upper bass. Both woofers play equal in the bass range, and the lower woofer first order rolloff compensates for the baffle step. This topology tends to get the most bass performance out of a pair of drivers.
I don't know if it would improve your system or not, but the conventional/traditional is always worth trying.
One nice aspect of your filter is that the upper woofer has ~ 2 dB less output in the deep bass, which means its IM distortion performance will be slightly improved in the midrange. The lower woofer caries more of the deep bass task, and it contributes less in the midrange.
j.