And another question…
What about making a non-TL floor stander with either a port or passive radiators? If ported, would it matter if the port were in the front or back? If the same crossover works fine with both sealed and TL, I’m just guessing here, but maybe it would be ok with a floor stander? Has anyone on here done it?
Same baffle width, same c to c spacing, same top of baffle to woofer spacing.
What about making a non-TL floor stander with either a port or passive radiators? If ported, would it matter if the port were in the front or back? If the same crossover works fine with both sealed and TL, I’m just guessing here, but maybe it would be ok with a floor stander? Has anyone on here done it?
Same baffle width, same c to c spacing, same top of baffle to woofer spacing.
I made these speakers taking inspiration from my XRK build. Similar baffle width, ported out the bottom. Strong bass. I used values for the RS225 similar to the XRK. I believe 3.8mH and 30uf, a bit more 2nd order really. I'm sure it won't measure as critically well as XRK intended but I'm pretty sure you'll be pleased with the results and have a fine sounding speaker.
I'm currently playing with my Ref monitors. I really notice the lack of top end with my PS95 after first swapping them back in after a speaker with a tweeter. Mine seem to roll off. I've added a filler tweeter to cover about 10k up, just a 1st order with 2uf (8 ohm tweeter being the Morel MDT22.) I have a few small face plate tweeters to play with as I hoped to squeeze it onto the existing baffle. Again, not what Viet designed so apologies there, but this is DIY and we can tune to our ear's needs can't we!
I'm currently playing with my Ref monitors. I really notice the lack of top end with my PS95 after first swapping them back in after a speaker with a tweeter. Mine seem to roll off. I've added a filler tweeter to cover about 10k up, just a 1st order with 2uf (8 ohm tweeter being the Morel MDT22.) I have a few small face plate tweeters to play with as I hoped to squeeze it onto the existing baffle. Again, not what Viet designed so apologies there, but this is DIY and we can tune to our ear's needs can't we!
A TL will beat a port in performance in many situations.
What would a ported version of this bring to you? If I may ask?
Do you have a goal in mind?
What would a ported version of this bring to you? If I may ask?
Do you have a goal in mind?
Did you try this for the PS95 crossover? It really doesn’t lack top end sparkle when I listen to it. Check out post 4112. It’s using SB23 on bottom but the top end should be similar with RS225.
Thanks for reminding me about that one X. Isn't the 0.33mH and the 2u2 giving the PS95 a high pass at 6kHz?
Pretty much the only reason for this is that I want a floor stander, but would prefer to have the enclosure depth be the same as the sealed monitor. Unfortunately I must keep my speakers closer to walls than i’d like for higher WAF. I may not be using a subwoofer with these, at least for a while and I would like to have lower bass response. I suppose though that I could do sealed, and use dsp for a linkwitz transform if I need more bass. Is the general consensus that the sealed version has plenty of bass for most people? I listen mostly to modern rock and alternative with lots of bass, like Radiohead.
Have you listened to these (without the tweeter) in both orientations? I mean with both the full range at the top as well as at the bottom? Any discernible differences in sound quality/time alignment?
Seems your in a tough spot balancing the WAF and listening enjoyment. IMO, you’re not going to be satisfied with the sealed version given your musical preference, not enough bottom end.
The ported version would be very similar in size to the TL version.
And, having the TL port firing forward, it will be way better when placed close to a wall.
The TL version would rarely need a sub, unless you are after the last octaves of an organ, or wanting heavy HT sound.
And, having the TL port firing forward, it will be way better when placed close to a wall.
The TL version would rarely need a sub, unless you are after the last octaves of an organ, or wanting heavy HT sound.
Indeed I did try just out of curiosity. No change to my ears and at my listening height.
I know my hearing doesn't go much above 14k, and when I measured my speakers the HF wasn't going much beyond 10k, so I find the additional lift of the tweeter really helps. Granted this isn't X's pure design anymore.
I’ve got another newbie question. In the first graph, with spl and distortion; there’s some pretty big peaks and dips going on,especially in the lower octaves. Like +/- 6-7 db in spots. Is this completely normal for an audiophile level reference monitor? Is it just because there’s way less smoothing than I’m used to? Sorry, still have never done any measuring of my own and so I haven’t ever been too critical when looking at FR graphs.Finally got a chance to measure the TL’s with a calibrated mic (Cross Spectrum Labs UMIK-1) and REW. These are done at 0.5m to minimize room effects with 6 cycle frequency dependent window (FDW) gating. I also measured the TL vent at the exit plane to determine the TL output independent of the room gain. Amp used was XRKaudio TPA3255 reference Class D with PFFB. PSU was 50.2v 800w SMPS, preamp consists of Aksa Lender driving a custom LME49724 SE TI balanced converter.
The measurements above 200Hz resemble what the sealed version does. Below this, the TL augments the bass but hard to see where the effect of room gain ends. It does look like it reaches about 35Hz. Maybe lower.
Here is SPL and distortion at various components vs Freq for 2.0Vrms input. I also measured it at 5.0Vrms and 8.0Vrms. The 2.0Vrms at 0.5m scales like 2.83Vrms at 1m. This shows speaker efficiency is 82.5dB as expected. There is a 2kHz distortion bump. This was confirmed to be intrinsic to the RS225 as disconnecting 10F still resulted in the same 2kHz bump.
Here is the SPL and measured acoustic phase. You can see that it is fairly flat and linear - down to about 200Hz where we get effects of TL. The TL output port is fairly close to the floor and I think I am getting f a floor bounce cancellation dip at 130Hz.
Here is measured output of TL vent only. Taken at lower 0.71Vrms to avoid mix clipping.
Here is the group delay of the woofer and TL only - very good at under 5ms down to 45Hz:
And what would be the f3 of this TL?
And one more: I was originally thinking of building the sealed, for another room. But now I’m thinking of building the TL and replacing my L/R mains in my “home theater. “ would that be a bad choice when It comes to dispersion and less than ideal listening positions while watching movies? Currently running Paul Carmody Swope Towers (WTMW layout.)
gardenzealot,
The RS225 driver has Sd (cone area) of 213.8 cm^2, while the HiVi M5A SD is 87 cm^2; so with a single RS225 you have much more cone area vs 2x M5A. The Xmax of the RS225 is 7mm (one way), and the HiVi M5A has an Xmax of 2.7mm. The Fs of the RS225 is 28Hz, and the HiVi M5A Fs is 48 Hz.
These specs indicate that in a properly designed cabinet, the RS225 should be able to provide greater LF output than 2X HiVi M5A; something important perhaps for your HT mains. Now, since the RS225 FAST design by X uses a FR as mid-tweet, it does not have a dedicated tweeter, and this might affect the high frequency extension and dispersion vs design with a dedicated tweeter; but builders have talked about their satisfactory experience with music, and you might find it enough to satisfy your needs in the HT application also.
The RS225 driver has Sd (cone area) of 213.8 cm^2, while the HiVi M5A SD is 87 cm^2; so with a single RS225 you have much more cone area vs 2x M5A. The Xmax of the RS225 is 7mm (one way), and the HiVi M5A has an Xmax of 2.7mm. The Fs of the RS225 is 28Hz, and the HiVi M5A Fs is 48 Hz.
These specs indicate that in a properly designed cabinet, the RS225 should be able to provide greater LF output than 2X HiVi M5A; something important perhaps for your HT mains. Now, since the RS225 FAST design by X uses a FR as mid-tweet, it does not have a dedicated tweeter, and this might affect the high frequency extension and dispersion vs design with a dedicated tweeter; but builders have talked about their satisfactory experience with music, and you might find it enough to satisfy your needs in the HT application also.
Yes, room interactions and less smoothing than most published specs that want to show how great their specs are.
F3 is about 28~35Hz, roughly. Lots of room interactions around that point, so it's not easy to tell just from the graphs. The simulation would give us the real number... it's probably in this thread somewhere, but I don't feel like searching for so long! 🙂
Well the Swope towers actually use 2 m6n as woofer and M5n as the midrange. They sound great. I love them, but the living room is my best listening room. But it is also the movie room and there’s no way my wife will let me keep two big *** pair of speakers in the living room haha. My question was referring to the mid and high frequency dispersion and people watching from way off axis. But really it’ll be me and the wife 95% of the time, so off axis seating worries really shouldn’t be a concern of mine.
gardenzealot,
Paul Carmody's site has the Swope listed under HT speakers, but looks like those are different from your "tower". Google image search got me pics of the Swope towers and also found a YouTube review. Those look like a nice design, and have fun with the new build. 🙂
Make sure you do some side by side listening and share your impressions before your better half banishes one pair. 😀
Paul Carmody's site has the Swope listed under HT speakers, but looks like those are different from your "tower". Google image search got me pics of the Swope towers and also found a YouTube review. Those look like a nice design, and have fun with the new build. 🙂
Make sure you do some side by side listening and share your impressions before your better half banishes one pair. 😀
That’s actually a notch filter to tame a peak that the PS95 has.
Hi every one
I saw several mid/tweeter versions:
*TC9FD
*PS95
*10F/8424
there is any one that try with a Alpair 5.3 or CHN50 fr drivers? any spec on the mid/tweet to mach this design that is required? 8ohm 4 ohm.. as when i read the specs on each of the already try drivers they seens like complete differents animals.. also the difference in prices from vifa to sb to da..
thanks
I saw several mid/tweeter versions:
*TC9FD
*PS95
*10F/8424
there is any one that try with a Alpair 5.3 or CHN50 fr drivers? any spec on the mid/tweet to mach this design that is required? 8ohm 4 ohm.. as when i read the specs on each of the already try drivers they seens like complete differents animals.. also the difference in prices from vifa to sb to da..
thanks
Try 8ohms and adjust the resistor to match sensitivity of woofer to taste. Differences in sound are preference. Vifa and ScanSpeak are neutral and less top end shimmer. Ps95 and Faital more top end. Alpair probably more top end.
If you want to hear what the mid tweets sound like in comparison…
Subjective Blind Testing of Fullrange Drivers by xrk971
Round 1:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...nd-comparison-3in-5in-full-range-drivers.html
Round 2:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...d-comparison-3in-5in-drivers-round-2-a-2.html
Round 3:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-2in-4in-drivers-round-3-a.html
Round 4:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-2in-4in-drivers-round-4-a.html
Round 5:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...d-comparison-2in-3-5in-drivers-round-5-a.html
Round 6:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...-blind-abx-test-enabled-ff85wk-round-6-a.html
If you want to hear what the mid tweets sound like in comparison…
Subjective Blind Testing of Fullrange Drivers by xrk971
Round 1:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...nd-comparison-3in-5in-full-range-drivers.html
Round 2:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...d-comparison-3in-5in-drivers-round-2-a-2.html
Round 3:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-2in-4in-drivers-round-3-a.html
Round 4:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-2in-4in-drivers-round-4-a.html
Round 5:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...d-comparison-2in-3-5in-drivers-round-5-a.html
Round 6:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...-blind-abx-test-enabled-ff85wk-round-6-a.html
Hi X,
I will pretty much never sit in any sweet spot listening to these. Most of my listening is in the same room 15m x 15m while doing other stuff, mostly standing or walking around. Do you think the full range under the woofer is still an OK alignment, or would they be better inverted? I'd prefer to leave them as designed...
I will probably have to use the Scan Speak driver as the Peerless is pretty much NLA except in bulk.
Cheers
Stuey
I will pretty much never sit in any sweet spot listening to these. Most of my listening is in the same room 15m x 15m while doing other stuff, mostly standing or walking around. Do you think the full range under the woofer is still an OK alignment, or would they be better inverted? I'd prefer to leave them as designed...
I will probably have to use the Scan Speak driver as the Peerless is pretty much NLA except in bulk.
Cheers
Stuey