Indeed, Dayton's UK importer is Wall of Sound in East Yorkshire and the ones on Amazon are provided by them.
@xrk971 is there any bad reasons why the rs225-4 sealed would be a problem, maybe matched with a rs100-4P, I realise the Xover will need some tweaking.(I already have them, they're left from a stalled project)
Would adding a sub as the stand be of benefit, I have a spare pair of UM8-22's thinking about 15~20ltrs sealed to keep in proportion to the fast/WAW style, weather to downfire front or back mount?
Would adding a sub as the stand be of benefit, I have a spare pair of UM8-22's thinking about 15~20ltrs sealed to keep in proportion to the fast/WAW style, weather to downfire front or back mount?
Looks like the RS100-4P isnt a fullrange after all, drops pretty sharply @10k on axis and gradual drop @5k 30°
CX120-8 is an idea, tweeter Fs is 2745 would need to Xover pretty high
CX120-8 is an idea, tweeter Fs is 2745 would need to Xover pretty high
Last edited:
If you're going to do these: a) do it properly and b) they aren't going to be free.
1) Buy the right drivers - Amazon/wherever - probably roughly £200
2) Crossover bits. Hifi Collective does the correct Jantzen parts, plus some prototyping board off eBay (~10x15cm) - Probably £100 all in
3) Cabinet. You can get board CNC cut. 18mm MDF will give great performance, you can glue it up with only some glue and 2-4 hand clamps. Will take a week or so, doing a couple of edges at a time. Without CAD or tools, this will probably cost £150-200 to get the parts. If you glue them up very carefully, and use shellac/filler/sand/texture paint the cabinet, you should get them to look quite neat.
4) Cone. Sports cones fine, but I would recon on making fibreglass ones from the sports cone as a mould. Maybe £50 for cones and fibreglass kit from eBay
5) Binding posts, wire, etc - maybe another £50.
It is not something you can throw together and probably £600 will cover it. They do sound excellent though - especially if you want something musical that doesn't force sparkly detail in your face like a lot of commercial offerings. If you start cutting corners, they will not even be close to potential. By the time you're cutting down to off the shelf cabinets - and especially off the shelf crossovers - you should really just look for something on eBay for £200.
1) Buy the right drivers - Amazon/wherever - probably roughly £200
2) Crossover bits. Hifi Collective does the correct Jantzen parts, plus some prototyping board off eBay (~10x15cm) - Probably £100 all in
3) Cabinet. You can get board CNC cut. 18mm MDF will give great performance, you can glue it up with only some glue and 2-4 hand clamps. Will take a week or so, doing a couple of edges at a time. Without CAD or tools, this will probably cost £150-200 to get the parts. If you glue them up very carefully, and use shellac/filler/sand/texture paint the cabinet, you should get them to look quite neat.
4) Cone. Sports cones fine, but I would recon on making fibreglass ones from the sports cone as a mould. Maybe £50 for cones and fibreglass kit from eBay
5) Binding posts, wire, etc - maybe another £50.
It is not something you can throw together and probably £600 will cover it. They do sound excellent though - especially if you want something musical that doesn't force sparkly detail in your face like a lot of commercial offerings. If you start cutting corners, they will not even be close to potential. By the time you're cutting down to off the shelf cabinets - and especially off the shelf crossovers - you should really just look for something on eBay for £200.
As an aside - mine are not well placed - I didn't really have a place for them, they are in a small room against a wall.
I took some measurements and had FIR room correction filters made up - but the guy making them asked if I had already got correction filters running! The frequency response was off due to placement, but the crossover region is absolutely spot on, the phase showing zero wiggles or steps and perfectly smooth frequency response through the crossover. Very impressive.
I took some measurements and had FIR room correction filters made up - but the guy making them asked if I had already got correction filters running! The frequency response was off due to placement, but the crossover region is absolutely spot on, the phase showing zero wiggles or steps and perfectly smooth frequency response through the crossover. Very impressive.
Hi guys,
I've bought the bass and mid units. I have a lot of parts from building valve amps so that cuts down on spending. I'd be looking at Kemet DC Link caps, which I like the sound of in valve circuits. I have a few values. i might have to order the larger inductor(s) though I do have a selection.
I'm hoping I did the right thing here. I'm a musician and my listening includes a lot of opera and classical as well as jazz. No rock or metal. Some ambient. So the tonality of acoustic instruments is absolutely critical. I don't want any edge or hardness - just sweet acoustic sounds and vocals. I hope this is the right speaker for this!
What listening material do you guys have, for reference? What does it sound good on?
I've bought the bass and mid units. I have a lot of parts from building valve amps so that cuts down on spending. I'd be looking at Kemet DC Link caps, which I like the sound of in valve circuits. I have a few values. i might have to order the larger inductor(s) though I do have a selection.
I'm hoping I did the right thing here. I'm a musician and my listening includes a lot of opera and classical as well as jazz. No rock or metal. Some ambient. So the tonality of acoustic instruments is absolutely critical. I don't want any edge or hardness - just sweet acoustic sounds and vocals. I hope this is the right speaker for this!
What listening material do you guys have, for reference? What does it sound good on?
A good speaker should not favor any type of music. The difference then is only in the quality of the recording and the rest of the system.
I have indeed heard the argument that "a good speaker should not favour any type of music." I wouldn't say it was that simple, based on my many years as a musician. The tonalities of musical instruments are quite distinctive. Pianos have different tonalities - A Steinway isn't a Bechstein. Same for violins, and right down the line, also important for vocalists. For me the reproduction must be as faithful as possible to the original instruments I'm familiar with - that's what I want to hear. For example, with percussion like triangles, shakers etc. a ribbon works well for the detail of the high frequencies. I could go on, but I don't want to go off topic. I found this a lot when building valve amps, for example a resistor load had better tonality on classical and opera than an active CCS load. This is from someone who has played for years in orchestras and jazz groups. And of course parts like capacitors.
So my question remains - how have you found this speaker for opera and classical music? Any comments would be most welcome.
So my question remains - how have you found this speaker for opera and classical music? Any comments would be most welcome.
Last edited:
I follow this thread from time to time. I have a pair of old but good Seas 21F-WB 8" midbass drivers that are just right for the compression box and I could add some cheap little 3" FR drivers or maybe some bigger tweeters (30mm). I think that they should not be allowed to work above 1.5kHz, and it is preferable to cut them even lower. It's not an ambitious project, more of cheap fun.
Hi Andy. I can't comment on particular performance per music genre. But I just wanted to add my opinion on using 'an other' enclosure. My XRK Ref monitors were built with me re purposing and old wharfedale laser box. The overall baffle width is pretty similar to the approved design. Maybe I lose a little LF extension with the smaller enclosure. But for me using this box was the difference between me being able to have a go at this design over not at all. I figure it is better to experience a speaker build and possibly hear most of the potential of the design, rather than not at all.
Others opinions may and will vary.
But don't be put off having a go with a box of suitable dimensions. If it means you can get stuck in with certain elements of speaker building that you're capable of, then all the better.
Others opinions may and will vary.
But don't be put off having a go with a box of suitable dimensions. If it means you can get stuck in with certain elements of speaker building that you're capable of, then all the better.
I agree that a “good” speaker’s aim should be to reproduce any music perfectly. But honestly I don’t think you get that until the 50k point so…
Classical is a pretty big genre. Full orchestral overtures - really, they are not big or dynamic enough to “be there” - but are good. Chamber, choral etc I think they excel. They reproduce instrument tonality excellently and are not prone to any sibilance. They also have excellent, tight bass, very musical, and sounds fantastic with jazz as well, plus singer-songwriter stuff.
Basically they are very musical. If you want musicality over detail, and don’t need massive scale, they are great
Classical is a pretty big genre. Full orchestral overtures - really, they are not big or dynamic enough to “be there” - but are good. Chamber, choral etc I think they excel. They reproduce instrument tonality excellently and are not prone to any sibilance. They also have excellent, tight bass, very musical, and sounds fantastic with jazz as well, plus singer-songwriter stuff.
Basically they are very musical. If you want musicality over detail, and don’t need massive scale, they are great
Once the entry level HiFi classic was 8"+1", but that approach had problems in the midrange. The high directivity of the midbass and the wide polar characteristic of the tweeter are not a good match. Today it is it is usually resolved with waveguide. on a tweeter.
This concept with a small full range + bass helper 8" I think solves that problem pretty cheap. Only now there is a directivity problem at high frequencies. Has anyone tried adding a cheap backfire tweeter to this configuration? I think it would be a very good move.
This concept with a small full range + bass helper 8" I think solves that problem pretty cheap. Only now there is a directivity problem at high frequencies. Has anyone tried adding a cheap backfire tweeter to this configuration? I think it would be a very good move.
I did find that my ears in my room with my speaker placement prefer a bit more dispersion on the HF than the 3" FR can provide so I have been using a filler tweeter 10k up, currently a dipole GRS ribbon.
If someone wants to play, these are good tweeters for little money. "Vifa" XT25A, ebay or Aliexpress. Since the crossover is at fairly high frequencies, the wavelength is small and to avoid lobbing, they should be installed at the back. Experiment to determine which is better, to be in phase or out of phase with respect to the FR driver.
Attachments
I have a pair of ribbon tweeters so that can be done. I don't know if my older ears would tell any difference - worth trying since it's probably just one capacitor for the roll-off at 10K or whatever.