10F/8424 & RS225-8 FAST / WAW Ref Monitor

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#661
surajspai said:
Hi!
So I ordered the drivers.I received the TC9FDs and am waiting for the RS225-8 to arrive.
I am collecting the rest of the stuff required little by little and had a few doubts.
1.You are using a laptop source, so do you take direct freed from the 3.5mm audio jack or do you use a DAC?

I use laptop 3.5mm for measurments. I also have a UCA202 that works well.

I was planning to get a decent DIY DAC bit that seems to be pointless if the DAC converts the signal to analog which is converted to digital and again back to analog by the DAC in the DSP.

2.More details on stuffing please. Any photos of how you have placed it? IIRC, you used fiberglass? Just lined the case walls with fibreglass or did you use additional poly fill to stuff?


I used fiberglass because that was on hand. I prefer polyfill. Just stuffed it moderately - maybe a soccer ball size before stuffed inside and pushed into nooks and crannies. On dagger stuffed moderately tight.



3. The internal volume of the case works out to 25.2 litres or so. 24 litres is the design volume for the woofer so the dagger tl is just 1.2 litres?


Your volume is fine and TC9 works with 1.1L but you can make 2L to 3L of you want better. It will reduce your main sealed. If vented to back make vent 1/10 area of front area of Dagger where driver is mounted. Stuff Dagger in either case and make more dense as you go to tail.

4. I remember reading something on the lines of the volume of the dagger not being optimal for drivers other than the 10f. So what is the correct volume for the tc9fd? the total volume of the cabinet will change too I guess?
5. The dagger has to be completely sealed or can it be made venting to the rear as you suggested in another build thread? The chamber for the woofer has to remain sealed right?

If vented it needs to be vented but sealed relative to main bass chamber. Important to be sealed for RS225 to apply Linkwitz transform.

6.Dagger tl is stuffed too?
Click to expand...

Yes, see above.
 
#662
Can you sim the optimal volume for the tc9fd?
Also, since you give two options of vented or sealed, which is the optimum in THIS scenario for this driver(and cabinet/speaker)?
I guess the internal dimensions will change too from the existing 8x12x16, so how do I go about increasing it? Or rather, which dimension do I change? Adding an inch here and there will add a couple of litres to the internal volume, but which is the proper way to raise internal volume?
But, what effect will it give? Lower HD? Will the larger cabinet be really worth it(depending on how much bigger it becomes)?
 
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#663
surajspai said:
Can you sim the optimal volume for the tc9fd?
Also, since you give two options of vented or sealed, which is the optimum in THIS scenario for this driver(and cabinet/speaker)?
I guess the internal dimensions will change too from the existing 8x12x16, so how do I go about increasing it? Or rather, which dimension do I change? Adding an inch here and there will add a couple of litres to the internal volume, but which is the proper way to raise internal volume?
But, what effect will it give? Lower HD? Will the larger cabinet be really worth it(depending on how much bigger it becomes)?
Click to expand...

Personally, I would just make it as shown at 1.1L. The benefit is perhaps a bit lower harmonic distortion (maybe -5dB) but it is so low already you won't notice it. The main effect is if you need a lower XO point. But if you stick with 350Hz or higher the 1.1L is fine. So stay the course.

Here is HD at reference level of 96dB at 0.5m for TC9FD in 1.1L Dagger:
504696d1442576511-subjective-blind-comparison-2in-4in-drivers-round-4-tc9-dagger-hd.png


Here is HD in a >5L Nautaloss:
504697d1442576511-subjective-blind-comparison-2in-4in-drivers-round-4-tc9-nautaloss-hd.png
 
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#664
Hello X,
I will be getting the woofers soon, as one had to go back due to some issues.
Anyway, I was thinking of the cabinet and am making a few sketches so that I can get someone to cut the panels or for when I get around to doing it myself.
I am planning to use 18mm MDF with 1mm tar sheet and 6mm of felt to damp the walls.
The inner free air dimensions remain 8*16*12 inches, and the walls after all the damping are about a inch thick, which is the same as your cabinet's walls.

Panel cuts are like so for now -the front will be 10*18 inches, top 10*14 and sides 12.6*16.6. Perhaps I shall go through it again since it's just a rough estimate.

Anyway, I wanted more information on how to place the drivers-distance of the woofer from the bottom, distance of the full range from the woofer and it's distance from the top and sides.
The woofer's inner dimensions make out to be around 7.25in in diameter. So that means you have only 0.37 inches from the side walls? Isn't that cramped?
Also, have you chamfered the holes for the woofer and full range?
What about flush mounting?
 
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#665
The location of the mid tweet should be as close to the woofer as possible. The limitation was the fact that there is a Dagger rear chamber inside the main box. Thus I ended up at a spacing of 8in CTC from mid tweet to woofer. I the offset the mid tweet laterally by about 0.75in to reduce diffraction. But do chamfer driver holes for better breathing. That's nice damping material you have planned. Don't forget to stuff it with fiberglass or polyfill - that makes a big difference for impedance peaks. Regarding overall dimensions: baffle needs to be wise enough to fit bezel and clearance inside. If using the RS225, aim for internal dimensions of 24 liters (+/- 2 is not a big deal). I can get you exact dim of driver locations if you want.
 
#668
The RSS210HO is a subwoofer driver. It doesn't have quite enough sensitivity after baffle step although you could just apply more power. Never thought about using a sub woofer driver before. The Vas is 17 L so can work - just needs about 4 watts to sound like 1 watt on the RS225-8. With deep xmax could technically go to higher Max SPL.
 
#670
I wanted to create a WMW version of these but need it to lay horizontal. Even at that angle it still will be at head level. First is it possible? and second if i can what would be the best baffle layout for the drivers? I will be using an active dsp and i might change woofers to 18W/8531G-00 because i already have a set.
 
#671
cheebs said:
I wanted to create a WMW version of these but need it to lay horizontal. Even at that angle it still will be at head level. First is it possible? and second if i can what would be the best baffle layout for the drivers? I will be using an active dsp and i might change woofers to 18W/8531G-00 because i already have a set.
Click to expand...

Yes, it can work. In horizontal, maybe offset the M up to get W-W distances even closer. 18W/8531G00 is a very nice woofer - the 7in Revelator is arguably one of the finest mid bass in this size at any price. Were you going with 10F/8424 for the mid?
 
#672
xrk971 said:
Yes, it can work. In horizontal, maybe offset the M up to get W-W distances even closer. 18W/8531G00 is a very nice woofer - the 7in Revelator is arguably one of the finest mid bass in this size at any price. Were you going with 10F/8424 for the mid?
Click to expand...

Ok i still plan on using the small scan unless there is another better suited. As far as the distance between the woofers what should i shoot for? I have a few drivers that i have tried out in my truck that i will be building into speakers. This fast should be my first. The Revelators worked the best until i found 18 sounds 8mb500. The spl and impact i got from these are incredible. They don't sound as good as the scans but are close and way louder for my truck. That's another story.
 
#674
xrk971 said:
Tight as possible. Just lay drivers upside down on baffle and move around. Don't forget you need room around 10F for rear chamber.

Revelator for a truck LOL 🙂
Click to expand...

Ok As far as the rear chamber goes would you still use the triangle chamber you used or would you go different? I read most of this post and i read at one point you thought the rear chamber was holding back the low end of the scan.

And the Revelators in a truck. Yeah i used them in my car too. Along with the D3004/6020-00 that is the perfect active two way. That duo will be going in my next daily driver.
 
#675
You can go with the Dagger rear chamber. It may allow you to get tighter center to center spacing with a four sided pyramid. I measured it and it turns out 1.1 to 1.3 liters is almost the ideal volume for the 10F.

Volume of 4 sided square pyramid is 1/6 BH.


D3004/6020 is also a very nice tweeter. I guess you like great sound in your cars.
 
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#677
10F/8424 & RS225-8 Update: Passive FAST XO

I made a first order passive xo for this speaker based on the design of the xo for the FF85WK in the Dagger above the RS225 from this thread:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...lind-abx-test-enabled-ff85wk-round-6-a-5.html

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/292130-ff85wk-rs225-8-passive-fast.html

Design of XO (609Hz 1st order):
553489d1465237323-ff85wk-rs225-8-passive-fast-ff85wk-fast-xo-revised-2.png


554259d1465632129-subjective-blind-abx-test-enabled-ff85wk-round-6-fast-xo-small.jpg


554260d1465632129-subjective-blind-abx-test-enabled-ff85wk-round-6-10f-rs225-passive-xo.png


Measured SPL and phase:
554262d1465632129-subjective-blind-abx-test-enabled-ff85wk-round-6-10f-fast-phase.png


Harmonic distortion:
554263d1465632129-subjective-blind-abx-test-enabled-ff85wk-round-6-10f-fast-hd.png


Impulse and Step Response:
554264d1465632129-subjective-blind-abx-test-enabled-ff85wk-round-6-10f-fast-ir.png


Now I have a pretty nice pair of passive speakers to use with my new amps!

Latest one is a 90w/ch class AB MOSFET amp:
554261d1465632129-subjective-blind-abx-test-enabled-ff85wk-round-6-monoblock-amp-psu.jpg


Forgot to mention, sounds excellent. The bass digs really deep for no Linkwitz transform and sealed. It could be the Vhex+ 90w/ch class AB discrete MOSFET amp?
 
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#678
Hey X,

Is the resistance on the woofer an actual resistor or is it the resistance of the coil? If it's a resistor what is the power rating? Remember a resistor on the woofer will have to handle basically full power even after the coil, so it probably needs to be high wattage to keep from over heating.

If it's the resistance of the coil, you might look into picking up one with much lower resistance, either larger .awg or cored. It'll raise the overall sensitivity of your design quite a bit.

Generally, you don't use an attenuation resistor in the bass driver's circuit. Are you using it to change the Q of the driver?
 
#680
That's DCR of the buyout inductors - 20awg I think for $1ea and two in series. It turns out this little resistance probably raises Qts and allows deeper bass extension in the sealed box. I agree some efficiency is lost. I would have to buy a low DCR Erse iron core one and see how that improves sensitivity. I am driving it with my 90w amp so not lacking for power. The resistors on tweeter are slightly warm - the coils are not warm at all at levels up to 90dB.

Xo competition was won by Lozjek I think.
 
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