That's true...
the key is stuffing setting, since both woofer isolated on mid-high driver. I suggest you adjust stuffing one by one.
What I did is disconnect the woofer then adjusting the 10F once you get the sound that you like (everybody's taste is different) then disconnect it and reconnect the woofer then adjusting the stuffing like what X said (CMIIW... 3 moderate density as big as soccer ball).
after that, the connect them both. I like a bit more bass (not too much, just a bit more punch) so I found around 320 to 360 grams of stuffing is most people like...
Use the search thread feature and use key words “recordings” and “MP3”.
You will see some older recordings made with DSP xo and 1st order crossover.
There are also comparisons of a Harsch XO vs a LR2 XO using DSP here:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/277691-harsch-xo-4.html#post4407112
Let me upload more recent recordings using the passive XO and TL variant of the speaker. Coming soon later today...
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The building of mine is going slowly as I'm waiting some binding post and chinch conectors for the Arta Box to the external EMU sound card.
As it's a sort of Dayton, certainly close enough, my SB23NBAC-8 (aluminium cone too, the SB having a difficult 5° harmonic rise at around 1300/1500 hz that needs padding so an early enough XO) I will try the classic first slope. I'm passive so Harsch XO is not possible due to the long horizontal spacing needed there instead electronic delay -though one can certainly do it with serie inductors-
Instead the pyramid dagger I use Whiskey bottle can that gives a > 2liter load sealed which is near the ideal 0.55 Qtc when upgraded with wool stuffing.
I wanted mine like an Harbeth construction style (BBC) I called it the Hard-bet due to my bad hand skills- for trying several drivers arrangements, so screwable fronts. the one with the 10F below for extra phase -as designed by Xrk971- delay as a classic offseted one or a 3 ways if needed with a different XO near transcient perfect : a JMLC third order or even a classic LR12. Of course I will testimony here only for the two ways with the 10F as FR.
Main enclosure is around 26 liters sealed. But as the back is screwed as well as the front, it's easy to change a panel for a vented port or an aperiodic port.
Notice on the top the little 10F near the bottle I of course only drunk for the outside can 10F load. - second bottle almost done-
As it's a sort of Dayton, certainly close enough, my SB23NBAC-8 (aluminium cone too, the SB having a difficult 5° harmonic rise at around 1300/1500 hz that needs padding so an early enough XO) I will try the classic first slope. I'm passive so Harsch XO is not possible due to the long horizontal spacing needed there instead electronic delay -though one can certainly do it with serie inductors-
Instead the pyramid dagger I use Whiskey bottle can that gives a > 2liter load sealed which is near the ideal 0.55 Qtc when upgraded with wool stuffing.
I wanted mine like an Harbeth construction style (BBC) I called it the Hard-bet due to my bad hand skills- for trying several drivers arrangements, so screwable fronts. the one with the 10F below for extra phase -as designed by Xrk971- delay as a classic offseted one or a 3 ways if needed with a different XO near transcient perfect : a JMLC third order or even a classic LR12. Of course I will testimony here only for the two ways with the 10F as FR.
Main enclosure is around 26 liters sealed. But as the back is screwed as well as the front, it's easy to change a panel for a vented port or an aperiodic port.
Notice on the top the little 10F near the bottle I of course only drunk for the outside can 10F load. - second bottle almost done-
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Whisky bottle! Love it - but beware of hard surface reflections. 11in soccer sports cone/pylon is easiest.
I like the look of the BBC style box with removable front inset baffle.
I use that technique myself with a thin wall cabinet with battens infernal frame. Here is the Rockville speaker. It uses a passive inverted Harsch XO:
Measured XO response:
Another fantastic speaker I use daily and is a real keeper.
I like the look of the BBC style box with removable front inset baffle.
I use that technique myself with a thin wall cabinet with battens infernal frame. Here is the Rockville speaker. It uses a passive inverted Harsch XO:
Measured XO response:
Another fantastic speaker I use daily and is a real keeper.
Fun..... ; I wisch I was able to make such perfect cabinet and angle cuts. The end of the woof on your measurment is very similar to the original Kef B110.
I use the bottle can -in brown on the picture- that is a little more than 10 cm diameter but easy to glue as it's hard board chip and I put inside a non symetric plastic bottle ( false sugar plastic can as per photograph, mineral water bottle can do it...and of course wool inside and between the main and second internal can too) to break the main symetric resonance... same goal than the non symetrical pyramid foam damper you use !
My skill are really bad, all of that begun with your 2.5" drivers tests. I bought the 10F I liked and recognized the SS sound from the poll competition you ruled (quite neutral this driver with a top end none can cop with as far FR is concerned) to build the foam horn I never succeed to make - God bless people with hand skills-.
; I wisch I was able to make such perfect cabinet and angle cuts. The end of the woof on your measurment is very similar to the original Kef B110.I use the bottle can -in brown on the picture- that is a little more than 10 cm diameter but easy to glue as it's hard board chip and I put inside a non symetric plastic bottle ( false sugar plastic can as per photograph, mineral water bottle can do it...and of course wool inside and between the main and second internal can too) to break the main symetric resonance... same goal than the non symetrical pyramid foam damper you use !
My skill are really bad, all of that begun with your 2.5" drivers tests. I bought the 10F I liked and recognized the SS sound from the poll competition you ruled (quite neutral this driver with a top end none can cop with as far FR is concerned) to build the foam horn I never succeed to make - God bless people with hand skills-.
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I can't do it either - this is all the work of a master cabinet maker friend of mine. Glad you think it looks like B110 response as that was the goal. I was trying to get a similar voicing based on measurements from Stereophile. My XO frequency is dfifferent and much higher but I think that is why it sounds so good. Almost a FAST with a super tweeter above 5.5kHz.
Has anyone already tinkered with the cheaper 10F brother
Scanspeak Discovery 10F/8414-00 3.5" Full Range
and compared it with its more expensive 10F brothers?
Scanspeak Discovery 10F/8414-00 3.5" Full Range
and compared it with its more expensive 10F brothers?
I have not personally used it but this speaker works with a wide range of 8ohm full range drivers if one adjusts the attenuation using R1 and R2 to level match the full range with the woofer. The 8414 is about the same sensitivity so I think it would be a drop in match with no changes to the XO.
Small update, got all the CNC parts back and spent the day sanding parts down and verifying fit. The cabinet has a 3" spacer at the bottom as per some comments on page ~250 and a couple of smaller details were added. TL internal structure remains faithful to the original schematic. Hope to have them wrapped up within a few weeks if scheduling permits.
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Hi AS8912,
Wow! Beautiful construction details like the little jink in the front baffle to have hidden end grain towards the top. 45deg bevel mitered corner joints. Superb. Maybe consider adding a round over or bevel to TL vent edges? I like the feet too.
Looking forward to your listening impressions.
Cheers,
X
Wow! Beautiful construction details like the little jink in the front baffle to have hidden end grain towards the top. 45deg bevel mitered corner joints. Superb. Maybe consider adding a round over or bevel to TL vent edges? I like the feet too.
Looking forward to your listening impressions.
Cheers,
X
There are two 10F/8414’s. One with Nd motor 10F/8414G-10 that is $73 and 86dB. Other is $29 ferrite motor 10F/8414-00 and 83dB.
In the case of the latter, make R1 a wire jumper and do not populate R2 to get the max 83dB sensitivity to match the woofer after baffle step.
That’s very cool that you will provide CAD files! STEP format would be appreciated along with PDF drawings if possible.
Thank you!
Ok noted, I thought you were pertaining to the $29 8414, since that was what I was asking about.
Thanks!
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Hi, i have some request about a new loudspeakers project for the new dedicated room i nearly going to finish (hifi and home theater )
The room is on the last floor with a slanted ceiling.
it's 6 m large (20 feet) and 11 m long (36 feet)and 3 m height (10feet)
i begin to search since a month now and i think i found the good place to begin with the 10F/RS255 fast TL. (i first see the karlsonator and xki which looks so good too)
-do you think it's still a good idea because of the size of this room?
-is good for surround too or is this one is ok :
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/nScan-Ken-1v0-071115.pdf
-need a center for matching too
about the loudspeakers:
-for the 10F/8424, is the 4 or 8 ohm version ( i found only the 8 ohm here in europe)
-the RS225 is the 8 ohm right?
-i read it's possible to take the 10F/8414G10 (a good price here)
https://www.toutlehautparleur.com/haut-parleur-scanspeak-10f-8414g10-8-ohm-97-5-mm.html
in this store there are the faital pro 3fe22-25 etc very inexpensive
https://www.toutlehautparleur.com/haut-parleur-large-bande-faitalpro-3fe25-8-ohm-3-pouce.html
-in my local store, only medium and is it ok or is it much preferable to go with the plywood.
thank you very much !
The room is on the last floor with a slanted ceiling.
it's 6 m large (20 feet) and 11 m long (36 feet)and 3 m height (10feet)
i begin to search since a month now and i think i found the good place to begin with the 10F/RS255 fast TL. (i first see the karlsonator and xki which looks so good too)
-do you think it's still a good idea because of the size of this room?
-is good for surround too or is this one is ok :
http://www.planet10-hifi.com/downloads/nScan-Ken-1v0-071115.pdf
-need a center for matching too
about the loudspeakers:
-for the 10F/8424, is the 4 or 8 ohm version ( i found only the 8 ohm here in europe)
-the RS225 is the 8 ohm right?
-i read it's possible to take the 10F/8414G10 (a good price here)
https://www.toutlehautparleur.com/haut-parleur-scanspeak-10f-8414g10-8-ohm-97-5-mm.html
in this store there are the faital pro 3fe22-25 etc very inexpensive
https://www.toutlehautparleur.com/haut-parleur-large-bande-faitalpro-3fe25-8-ohm-3-pouce.html
-in my local store, only medium and is it ok or is it much preferable to go with the plywood.
thank you very much !
Hi Moutik,
Thanks for your interest. I think the room you have will work fine with the TL version of the 10F/RS225 FAST TL speaker. It’s not too big. But keep in mind, it’s not designed to reach THX levels of hone theatre sound (very few speakers are). If you listen to music at moderate levels (85 to 89dB) this is fine. It has one of the most balanced sounds and is great for stereo imaging and a resolved sound stage.
The surround speaker does not need to be a TL, but you can make the sealed version - about 24L box. Add a self powered 12in subwoofer with XO set below 80Hz.
You can use the single 10F/8424 in small box for a satellite speaker but it won’t have any punch below 250Hz as you really should not use it completely full range without a high pass filter.
For a center channel, vocal clarity and intelligibility is important, and may I suggest a passive 2 way using a dome tweeter and 5.25in woofer but designed with a close to transient perfect crossover and used in a super tweeter configuration.
RST28F and DC130A Foamcore Homage to LS3/5A
This “Rockville” speaker would also make a fine rear channel. It is voiced very similar to the 10F/RS225. Just happens to be smaller and less bass. Although does very well down to 80Hz. So perfect for the subwoofer integration.
Regarding use of other drivers. Almost any 8ohm full range can work. Just adjust the resistive attenuation to give an overall 82.5dB sensitivity at 2.83v at 1m in order to blend with the RS225-8. So 10F/8414, B80, TC9FD, PS95-8, RS100-8, FR88EX, FF85WK, Peerless 3in aluminum cones, 3FE22 or 3FE25, etc.
Here is my recommendation:
10F/RS225 TL for left and right front. RST28F/DC130A Rockville for center and rear left and right. Add a powered subwooofer for a 5.1 channel system. You may not need a subwoofer ad the TL’s have significant output down to 30Hz.
Thanks for your interest. I think the room you have will work fine with the TL version of the 10F/RS225 FAST TL speaker. It’s not too big. But keep in mind, it’s not designed to reach THX levels of hone theatre sound (very few speakers are). If you listen to music at moderate levels (85 to 89dB) this is fine. It has one of the most balanced sounds and is great for stereo imaging and a resolved sound stage.
The surround speaker does not need to be a TL, but you can make the sealed version - about 24L box. Add a self powered 12in subwoofer with XO set below 80Hz.
You can use the single 10F/8424 in small box for a satellite speaker but it won’t have any punch below 250Hz as you really should not use it completely full range without a high pass filter.
For a center channel, vocal clarity and intelligibility is important, and may I suggest a passive 2 way using a dome tweeter and 5.25in woofer but designed with a close to transient perfect crossover and used in a super tweeter configuration.
RST28F and DC130A Foamcore Homage to LS3/5A
This “Rockville” speaker would also make a fine rear channel. It is voiced very similar to the 10F/RS225. Just happens to be smaller and less bass. Although does very well down to 80Hz. So perfect for the subwoofer integration.
Regarding use of other drivers. Almost any 8ohm full range can work. Just adjust the resistive attenuation to give an overall 82.5dB sensitivity at 2.83v at 1m in order to blend with the RS225-8. So 10F/8414, B80, TC9FD, PS95-8, RS100-8, FR88EX, FF85WK, Peerless 3in aluminum cones, 3FE22 or 3FE25, etc.
Here is my recommendation:
10F/RS225 TL for left and right front. RST28F/DC130A Rockville for center and rear left and right. Add a powered subwooofer for a 5.1 channel system. You may not need a subwoofer ad the TL’s have significant output down to 30Hz.
Hi xrk, others,
I have been lurking on this thread for a while. And read it couple of times - it got so big you have to dedicate half a day!
Still haven't built mine but most likely going for it. I am especially interested in ML floor stander version, but my ears lean towards the full ML-TL builds. I know it sounds weird, but any time I hear some random speakers and I hear something interesting in them - most likely they turn out to be MLTL...
So, the question is - does someone built MLTL version of this speaker?
I have been lurking on this thread for a while. And read it couple of times - it got so big you have to dedicate half a day!
Still haven't built mine but most likely going for it. I am especially interested in ML floor stander version, but my ears lean towards the full ML-TL builds. I know it sounds weird, but any time I hear some random speakers and I hear something interesting in them - most likely they turn out to be MLTL...
So, the question is - does someone built MLTL version of this speaker?