Is this also true for for supplies that internally can put the two channels in series - like the SIGLENT Serie SPD3000X-E? It seems the 0v/GND is not available as a midpoint on this supply? (I am looking at buying a lab-supply, and will of course net a +/- supply with 0V midpoint)
I have outboard power supply, with extra caps in the chassis. Just an option. No clutter, no hum.
Looks like that PSU would be fine. Manual states it can run Independent, Series and Parallel modes. Also gives good illustrations of how to connect. I just googled your model# posted and it was 5-6th down in results.
@bullittstang does this mean I would simply use independent mode and connect as per the drawing to have a 0V midpoint? The series-mode does not seem to provide that.
Yes, but check with DMM and no load first to make sure it’s operating as expected before ever connecting any kind of load.
The series and parallel modes generally means the channels are wired independent of each other internally, which is the important part of being able to use as a dual voltage supply. If they are shared internally, you can send voltage out of one channel and back feed into the other, which is bad.
The series and parallel modes generally means the channels are wired independent of each other internally, which is the important part of being able to use as a dual voltage supply. If they are shared internally, you can send voltage out of one channel and back feed into the other, which is bad.
Interesting, I'm also building a Pearl 3 phono stage and that is the approach Wayne took when he designed it.....but then two chassis and an umbilical cord.
Yup. Most of my first watt amps are with external supply. Box for supply is most of the time hidden in the back, so it does not need to be fancy.
Adason, that is a good approach because it avoids a lots of issues and worries about loop area. But I am going to try to make it work in the 5U chassis. If I have issues, I can re-build the power supply into a separate box. Once this thing is built and tested, I am going to have to ask a couple of you guys over to help me move the amp😁.
John
John
Finally started today to build up.......Very nice Boards 😉
I've begun collecting parts as I wait for the V5 boards. I'm speccing my toroids and chassis right now.
I have what might be considered a simple question:
Why does everyone put the toroids inside of the chassis? This seems like the absolute worst place to put an object with as large of magnetic field as a toroidal power supply. Is it just simply convenience? Why not just put them in a different box a little ways away from the rest of the amplifier? Wouldn't this distance decrease noise while minimizing the need for a fully shielded transformer?
I've found some much smaller chassis (width wise, not heat sink wise) that are MUCH cheaper that I can fit all the components without the toroids being inside. I could leave the toroids in 3d printed boxes on my little power rack.
I have what might be considered a simple question:
Why does everyone put the toroids inside of the chassis? This seems like the absolute worst place to put an object with as large of magnetic field as a toroidal power supply. Is it just simply convenience? Why not just put them in a different box a little ways away from the rest of the amplifier? Wouldn't this distance decrease noise while minimizing the need for a fully shielded transformer?
I've found some much smaller chassis (width wise, not heat sink wise) that are MUCH cheaper that I can fit all the components without the toroids being inside. I could leave the toroids in 3d printed boxes on my little power rack.
If you have the space and the means, having the power supply in a separate box is a viable option 👍. A few users have done so. Speakon for the power connectors would be a nice way to do it with decent 2.5mm2 min cable in between. The only (very minor) downside I can see might be the increased resistance and inductance from the lengths of the interconnecting DC leads. I think some people suggest more local capacitance in the amp, although I would think the Wolverines local caps would suffice here. May also need to consider all of the required conductors - 3x per amp channel, 2x for an aux power supply for speaker protection and 1x for grounding the chassis together for a fault return path.
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Cool, I have the space so I think this is the move. I just got a new laser machine so maybe I make some clear acrylic boxes to put them in.
While redesigning the Power Monitors for Microsoft's data centers I came across this wire:
https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/cnc-tech/3132-10-1-0100-001-1-TS/22477373
Its impedance is like zero. Far lower than anything I have ever hit with an LCR meter. Its such tiny strands that the surface area ends up being huge. This is hookup wire for highly sensitive AC measuring equipment. Another benefit is the virtually indestructible silicone jacket. Neat stuff. Worth every penny (not that I pay for it, I just take it from shop stock)
The only caps I have sourced so far are the power caps. I picked up 4 of these from Skidave who had purchased to many accidentally so he was selling them. I think two per channel should suffice.
https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Cornell-Dubilier-CDE/CGS223U080W4C?qs=qWixfiLJRaxuOL7Ci4ISqA==
Good caps. Cable - Assuming rail leads to 1 channel (approx. 1m length max 0.7% V loss), 2.5mm2 is as large as any wolverine would ever need (~25A cont.), 1.5mm2 (~16A cont.) would do most no issues, I wish you luck terminating and dressing that nice 6mm2, 50A cable 😎
You got me looking at separate power supply chassis ideas. Seems Neutrik don't like the Speakon series being used as any power supply according to the documentation. Funny that, they are rated 250V AC and 30A continuous. I wonder if it's just liability covering for people using them as AC mains leads, or they want to avoid DC connections made hot (which in our case they wouldn't be)?
You got me looking at separate power supply chassis ideas. Seems Neutrik don't like the Speakon series being used as any power supply according to the documentation. Funny that, they are rated 250V AC and 30A continuous. I wonder if it's just liability covering for people using them as AC mains leads, or they want to avoid DC connections made hot (which in our case they wouldn't be)?
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Hi Bmsluite,
With more reasonable cable sizes as suggested above by Mainframe you get a small amount of filter action due to the finite cable resistance and inductance, you can end up with a another small pi filter section between the bulk capacitance and the on board rail decoupling capacitors.
To be fair it is sometimes fun to use unreasonable options in audio for the cool factor.
I hope this is helpful
With more reasonable cable sizes as suggested above by Mainframe you get a small amount of filter action due to the finite cable resistance and inductance, you can end up with a another small pi filter section between the bulk capacitance and the on board rail decoupling capacitors.
To be fair it is sometimes fun to use unreasonable options in audio for the cool factor.
I hope this is helpful
It comes in different guages. That link was just the first one on the Monday BOM to copy/paste. They all have crazy low impedence specs. We are using the 10, 14, and 16 awg.
I have been using twisted pairs of the 10 awg with a shielding sheath as my speaker cables though. I cannot tell any difference between that and regular old MTW. But yes, certainly looks very nice
Have a look at their powercon series instead.
Although it might not be good practice to use a connector that's typically used for mains power. Might be confusing.
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We use banana jack connectors for our test system builds. I'm pretty sure the Pomona gold plated ones we have are rated at 30A. Though we can only fit a 14 awg test lead wire into the solder socket.
Is there a reason to be using these fancy connectors for the mains power instead of those other than ease of use?
I was referring to the DC power interlinking connector if you were to do power supply in separate box to the amplifier. The mains connector is mandatory C13 to the power supply box, no exception, unless going more than 15A from mains (10 in my case). Then from there to the amp box you'd want something unpluggable but would have to be proprietary so you don't risk plugging in mains or hurting someone with big DC.
Perhaps something like Weipu's WS28-(X) for a budget 25A 7-10 pin rated connector or if you want to splash out look at anything Amphenol. We've used Amphenol Socapex 19-pin connectors (6 x 10A 230AC) in theatre installs before to get heavy theatre light feeds from the fixed catwalks to the descending theatre light bars.
Although as I mention earlier, most of the connectors are AC rated only, so for anyone considering the above, proceed with caution. I believe the lack of DC rating is the manufacturers have to build for people making hot connections, and DC would melt contacts if inserted/removed hot.
Perhaps something like Weipu's WS28-(X) for a budget 25A 7-10 pin rated connector or if you want to splash out look at anything Amphenol. We've used Amphenol Socapex 19-pin connectors (6 x 10A 230AC) in theatre installs before to get heavy theatre light feeds from the fixed catwalks to the descending theatre light bars.
Although as I mention earlier, most of the connectors are AC rated only, so for anyone considering the above, proceed with caution. I believe the lack of DC rating is the manufacturers have to build for people making hot connections, and DC would melt contacts if inserted/removed hot.
Ahhh, I was planning on placing only the toroid in the separate box. Everything else planned to be in the chassis
Or C22. We started defaulting to C22 just because there's so many wimpy C13 cords out there and we don't want anyone swapping one out sometime in the future with a cheap C13. At least with a C22 you know it will be pretty beefy.