I understand your frustration, what China produced 10 years ago is not what it produces now.
I do agree that the NE5532 are suspicious, however , they work...
The PCM58 boards I had had suspicious NE5532 which I replaced with vintage 1980s originals. and the PCM58 I bought from China were are original recycled high quality, I purchased 3 sets, of all quality types, I am probably going to hear the 'k' version tonight. They exceeded the specifications and I did many tests on them, the whole system is good.
I understand the disapointment, went through that buying tda1541 from China and losing my time, my money, all for nothing, oscillations and everything. But also back then I didn't know what I was doing, believed in capacitor upgrades etc.
Back then the pins from IC holders broke on the first bend, now they break on 2n or 3rd bend, real brass pins from here break after 3 bends. So it is way better now.
Have been there, have enough DAC to know, I know NE5532, etc.
Well, I see people loose also their monney by buying false clone of Rogic TDA1541A with terrible layout from Canadian diyers, that's a vast world ! Thanks to the good video, people run... ASR, same reciep ! For inexperienced guys I think that's okay...
My point is : Sinad and THD only will never tell you if a DAC is a good sounding one in this world of abondance . And because of that chineese DAC are only god if spending a little monney >1000 seems to be a minimum targett and good brands like Holo, not the ones that makes 12 designs a year by assembling with the chips makers helping documents... Economic model : it takes time what ever people think to make a good device, it is easy to have good numbers nowadays. As for the Ali dacs, I don't think they make any progress...
Well, I see people loose also their monney by buying false clone of Rogic TDA1541A with terrible layout from Canadian diyers, that's a vast world ! Thanks to the good video, people run... ASR, same reciep ! For inexperienced guys I think that's okay...
My point is : Sinad and THD only will never tell you if a DAC is a good sounding one in this world of abondance . And because of that chineese DAC are only god if spending a little monney >1000 seems to be a minimum targett and good brands like Holo, not the ones that makes 12 designs a year by assembling with the chips makers helping documents... Economic model : it takes time what ever people think to make a good device, it is easy to have good numbers nowadays. As for the Ali dacs, I don't think they make any progress...
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I attest that pcm58 is good as is, the schematic is a little bit unorthodox, there are missing parts, others the designers took great liberty at, however all in all it is close to a classic hifi cd you could buy in the 1980s and it sounds great.
A sinad and THD at -60db tells you a lot of what is going on with the 'bit's of information and if the digital filter does its job as well as the latches/dual , hybrid (ad1862 is some dual comparator hybrid with feedback I think?).
All I read was that pcm58 was neutral, in some applications it was well performing and had the best out of the box measured specifications and was highly tweakable.
A sinad and THD at -60db tells you a lot of what is going on with the 'bit's of information and if the digital filter does its job as well as the latches/dual , hybrid (ad1862 is some dual comparator hybrid with feedback I think?).
All I read was that pcm58 was neutral, in some applications it was well performing and had the best out of the box measured specifications and was highly tweakable.
I have a complete DIY build audio chain because I know what I like. Sometimes I try or listen to ready build equipment and being surprised that it sounds real good. Every DAC can sound great if you know what you have to do with the complete circuit to get there. I can say that because I do that now for 45 years starting with the first Philips. But Dac circuits who can not reconstruct the signal right never sound good for me.
And for the third time the Akliam PD6 is for me the best sounding DAC until yet and only after getting its own power supply with a special usb cable.
And for the third time the Akliam PD6 is for me the best sounding DAC until yet and only after getting its own power supply with a special usb cable.
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I agree it is a good chip. Not as good as the TDA1541A or AD1862, but good ennough.
Akliam PD6 with embeded ES op amp in chip... Well maybe it is worthing just the price it costs. But that's crazy what they can do for the price. But again, do we listen to a price?
Also surprised you compare the chineese dac above with mine if you know what you're doing layout wise...
Akliam PD6 with embeded ES op amp in chip... Well maybe it is worthing just the price it costs. But that's crazy what they can do for the price. But again, do we listen to a price?
Also surprised you compare the chineese dac above with mine if you know what you're doing layout wise...
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It is worth the price of dacs 100 times the price. At blind test I/we could not tell the difference between Mola Mola Tambaqui and Akliam PD6. Why spend more? It is all between the ears. 🙂
Then you would be surprised how good this is : https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005008175519437.html pcm5102, it is very good sounding, and this one can hold it's own to the very hifi dacs.
I listened to this, to me it is day/night difference with the other dacs mentioned, and pushed here.
I listened to this, to me it is day/night difference with the other dacs mentioned, and pushed here.
Ahaha, that's a good one ! 5 euros is the price target ! 😁
Btw, I have one pcm5102 DAC by Ifi. Not bad but not for me... I have higher expectations. All those toys lack of life, rythm, tigth bass... musicality. Soundslike the FM radio of yesterday. At least as far I am concerned.
Btw, I have one pcm5102 DAC by Ifi. Not bad but not for me... I have higher expectations. All those toys lack of life, rythm, tigth bass... musicality. Soundslike the FM radio of yesterday. At least as far I am concerned.
however, pcm5102, sound is not bad like you said, the others...
I never heard the ad1862 but how this // dac works
some highlights of ad1862:
-segmented decoder, R2r tech, and digital offset (sounds fine). , extra dac cell,
-it still doesn't have a good -60db figures.
-350ns vs (200ns for PCM58)
I never heard the ad1862 but how this // dac works
some highlights of ad1862:
-segmented decoder, R2r tech, and digital offset (sounds fine). , extra dac cell,
-it still doesn't have a good -60db figures.
-350ns vs (200ns for PCM58)
You meant talking again of minimum enough quality related to the thread topic, i.e. talking of the Topping, SMSL, but not of the Ali craps ? If yes I can't agree more.
But not sure I understand your input.
I just wanted to say that cheap chineese toys are limited and that's why I diy and try to do better for myself. As we were talking about cheap DAC I eventually proposed a 4 layer board I designed, that I think is cheap and I can propose as a kit as well as I have voiced it. Which never did the small toys sold in Ali or the cheap chineese dacs. They use embeded filter and only beginn to play with filter and better sound when you pay at the end as much as alll the rest of the world sold DAC.
I consider my DIY I made quite excellent for the price of it, but of course parts are Mouser purchased, so can not be at the final price of a 200 euros Chineese SMSL ! People has to buy two AD1862 at around 50 euros iirc at Mouser if US based; Rcore traffo must be purchased as well as regs and the front end : here made at minima for JLSOUNDS or IanCanada I2StoPCM.
But what I think is it must be voiced, cause an empty board can not enterily suffice, so it is better for the ears of the prople to proceed like for illustration Abraxalito does : precise BOM or Kit with the parts. If left empty, it asks more time involvment. But we diy for our needs, so eventually can find it good enough for others enthusiasts.
I assume some migth find it excellent to listen to related to the price and the more exigent people needs more achieved DAC but also more expensive : Marcel'RTZ, etc. I still listen to 16 bits material though.
@diyiggy
I would be interested in a dac you feel is as low cost as it can reasonably be, yet good enough to satisfy you personally such that you would want to use it as your main dac.
For the purposes of this thread, I would take it as one data point. Maybe it would set an upper boundary on low cost, yet excellent? We would need to see the details in order to call it a data point though.
I would be interested in a dac you feel is as low cost as it can reasonably be, yet good enough to satisfy you personally such that you would want to use it as your main dac.
For the purposes of this thread, I would take it as one data point. Maybe it would set an upper boundary on low cost, yet excellent? We would need to see the details in order to call it a data point though.
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This middle cost step is really not the same from a people to another. Alas that's how is segmented the market.
You know how much a good digital front end can be costly. And my main DAC has an expensive one. But I have good fun to try to go closer I can than my main with much lower cost (and weigth and size). So I designed in the vinicity of the JLSounds possibilities as a source. Already better than a lot of low cost chineese USB to logic embeded front end. But it can't figth my main DAC with its complex front end.
The fun I have is to do that with few triggers : pcb design, PCM chips, NOS, op amps, passive parts and power supply. I assume as most of the diyers here.
But I don't want anymore spend time or monney in my hobby with bad designed ALi craps or modding cheap chineese dac with sacrificing all the layout that is already made cheap most of the time due to the price and time dev in the market of less than 1000USD CHI DACS. Did that, begunn as many with the old TDA cd players, etc.
You know how much a good digital front end can be costly. And my main DAC has an expensive one. But I have good fun to try to go closer I can than my main with much lower cost (and weigth and size). So I designed in the vinicity of the JLSounds possibilities as a source. Already better than a lot of low cost chineese USB to logic embeded front end. But it can't figth my main DAC with its complex front end.
The fun I have is to do that with few triggers : pcb design, PCM chips, NOS, op amps, passive parts and power supply. I assume as most of the diyers here.
But I don't want anymore spend time or monney in my hobby with bad designed ALi craps or modding cheap chineese dac with sacrificing all the layout that is already made cheap most of the time due to the price and time dev in the market of less than 1000USD CHI DACS. Did that, begunn as many with the old TDA cd players, etc.
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I think you are tipically benchmarking datas w/o taking the whole into acount. I never found the PCM58 to be above the ad1862 at iso perimeter around them.
I don't say the pcm5102 is bad, I just say it was borring to me in the headphone DAC I have from Ifi... and it certainly has incredible -60 dB figures, so WTF if I may ? But any old dac chip with a goo design around will sounds better than all the chi-fi talked in this thread... whatever it is 16 bits ! In my own DACs I can hear more things with better tone than PCM5102 made cheap, so...!
So SINAD to judge DACS... well in a marketing world or first year of engineer school perhaps. But honnestly one just one data over thousands other ones to rank a DAC?!
The expensive part of good stuff is time, like food. It is also what you pay for I surmise in the most expensive DAC VS the datasheet chips married together in cheap chi-fi Dacs. However as everyone, when spending time it becomes way better, no miracle under the Sun ! I am sure I can live with a Denafrip, Holo MAY, etc.
The difficult line of this thread is how much minimum cheap a Chi-FI mass markett is to sound good enough ? 200 ? 400 ? 600 ?, etc.
Honestly the frequency curve at home is so important than more clever people lile MiniDSP made the story usefull before the DAC chip. Too bad they spend NOT too much time of the digital to analog side.
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If it was those three files, I listened them. Told you they sound about like they measure in DeltaWave.
What did you measure?
I know from the design of the *58, that it loses one bit of data due to many factors, mostly in the oversampling etc, and it loses another bit probably in the drift of temperature and over time.
Both are corrected and restored by adjusting the 4 most significant bit and it will play like a 18 bit device.
It is specified at worse than ad1862 , maybe 5db less, (at -60).
It says in the production data that good samples retain better, So I did check higher grade and it is better, then adjusting the MSB and first bit, I get around -55db, however I am using ad1611 for I/V which was not available, it defines more the character of the dac speed than it's own settling time. It says in the datasheet that in 1987 no fast enough opamp could be used to take advantage of the fast settling times, that is one other reason the dac is current output.
Maybe your setup was too generic to take advantage of the *58? Because you cannot improve much that ad1862, and the outside capacitor design is not the best according to many dac designers.