Are there any excellent inexpensive Chinese DACs?

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#1,362
alexIG said:
I have a scope and can solder fine pitch but time is the problem. To make my life more hectic I recently invested in 3d printing start up which consumes all my spare time and funds. I set my budget for DAC to 1K max. Mola Mola sounds very appealing as I'm familiar with Bruno's products and he completely changed my opinion about Class D amps. I put together NC400 amp about ten years ago and have no desire to upgrade it as I also have BAT VK55 but listen mostly to my NC400 amp as it is more convenient although they sound slightly different. I'd like to try Pass XA 60 at some point as 30.5 was my favorite amp.
Fifteen years ago when I was looking for a better DAC I bought and compared Benchmark, Young M2Tech and some Musical Fidelity DACs in my system and I could not hear much difference and indeed did not hear any improvement over my Rega Appolo CD player. That was a while ago and considering the pace of development in digital I expected to find much better DACs at much lower price point. After reading BS that "all well measured DACs sound identical" on ASR forum I hoped that I can find a holly grain for less than $500 but so far my experience tells different and what you said mirrors what I suspected.
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Go for the chord, go linear on the psu. I have been looking into this for years and if its time saving you're after, and you don't want to waste money, i would go for the chord. Its design is even open sourced. When you say quality are you talking about sound quality or things that wont break in six months or easily? Assuming youre factoring in both, under$500, quickly, the chord.
 
#1,364
Found interesting AKM article.
After the failure of our prototype chip, we moved forward with a new filter approach that produced a more pleasing sound - this time no pre-echo, with some post-echo - and asked a reliable customer to audition the device prior to mass production. With confidence, we introduced the AK4399 to a customer that manufactured musical instruments. After listening to our demo, he said “the position of that drum is different from the way that I recorded it.” Sure enough, the positions of the cymbals, toms, and hi-hats within the sound field were slightly different from where they actually were during recording. We realized that filter processing is largely to blame for the so-called “smell of digital audio.”


We addressed that shortcoming by developing a new product, the AK4482. This device employed a digital filter with a short delay and slow roll-off; such filters are favored based upon the assumption that there should be no audio activity before the initial sound occurs. We demonstrated the AK4482 to the same customer that had noted the positioning issues of the AK4399. To our relief, he said “this time the positioning of the drums is faithful to the way that I recorded them.” This time, it sounded analog
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All DACs are transparent and sound stage is just subjective illusion 😎
 
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#1,365
phi112358 said:
I had an ak4493. Sounded like plastic.
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This is one of the reasons (with layout, I2S source for DAC chip, power supply, etc) why people have different opinions with different devices based on the same DAC chips. I am sure that despite this mention device shows excellent results in measurements.
We can’t say “this filter is the best for you,” but we believe that our customers will select the filter that works best for their products, with their own signature sounds. In other words, let your ears be the judge. link
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#1,367
It measures well, I am with Phi112, the akm has a pleasant sound when tube buffered but it still has a parody sound like.

It is very apparent in choirs, it sounds like a rubber ducks, or plastics, on the contrary the pcm58 I am modifying now would immediately let me guess the age of a choir singers through the tones/attack, assurance and energy in their voices. Trying sm5847 filter soon, 1704 in the other dac
 
#1,368
Well, if you can hear those things, be prepared to spend a lot of money to achieve what you want...

1704 will require a really good I/V stage... try AD811. It will (1704) simply show what your transport (a streamer, or a CD player used as a transport) is capable of, i.e. it will show how good (or bad) the source is. I'd say it is a digital straight wire with D/A capability.
DDDAC is an interesting sounding option, but you will start spending a serious amount of money. Maybe skip it (I didn't, unfortunately... but I do not regret it).
Pedja's 1541 is the most analog-sounding DAC I've experienced... but with (it required) a very good and expensive CD transport.

Also, try demoing a really good DAC just to see what it can do for digital audio reproduction. This will keep you straight and give you a reference point, which is very important. You'll know where you are at any point in time along the DIY endeavour.
 
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#1,369
Hi boky, I have a decent stereo system and will make more diy!

I tried all the recent best opamps, and you know what... I am going to reinstall vintage 1980s manufactured NE5534 to replace the new Chinese ones.

I went through these: ''Lampucera", SONY (+many others not worth) BDP-s300, CDP X777es, CDC 555ESD, Chinese tda1541, Discrete Chinese tda1541, Shitt (2nd one with upgrade), FiiO, PCM-53*K*s for broadcasting/mastering, emu0404 with Broskie tube, other Sony cdp not worth mentioning, 3 computer sound cards highly praised here, many others,

I 'recall' from what I read from builders and diyers... PCM58,56,63 >>>> 1704 in all aspects. it has -42db THD at -60db signal using the 24 Bits feeder. I am getting -64db THD with 20bits pcm58-J.

The sound was best with ''Lampucera''+AD8599, and PCM-58K, the rest is not worth your time.
 
#1,373
Extreme_Boky said:
Well, if you can hear those things, be prepared to spend a lot of money to achieve what you want...

1704 will require a really good I/V stage... try AD811. It will (1704) simply show what your transport (a streamer, or a CD player used as a transport) is capable of, i.e. it will show how good (or bad) the source is. I'd say it is a digital straight wire with D/A capability.
DDDAC is an interesting sounding option, but you will start spending a serious amount of money. Maybe skip it (I didn't, unfortunately... but I do not regret it).
Pedja's 1541 is the most analog-sounding DAC I've experienced... but with (it required) a very good and expensive CD transport.

Also, try demoing a really good DAC just to see what it can do for digital audio reproduction. This will keep you straight and give you a reference point, which is very important. You'll know where you are at any point in time along the DIY endeavour.
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I agree .
Stop the chineese kitchen DAC, Try the diyiggy Frenchyse (word-game) AD1862 + AD811 voiced during undred of listening tests : 30 euros the pcb (needs the logic front end though for the AD1862 : JLSOUNDS, Iancanada I2S to PCM, York, etc.

Inspired by the excellent work of Miro1360 on his 2 layers boards, I tried to make it the better I can with cheap in mind according european standard. We can't compete against chineese costs and 30 euros the already populated but at least I respect the human rigth as I am the worker here, lol ! ANd everyone is knowing the french cheese is the best ! 😆

Here what a cheap chineese never will : taking into acount the digital and analog current loops, avoid currents crossing, directing some into short loops playing on the layers and through hole parts pth isolation according the layers; matching impedance traces, reduce stray inductance and capacitance where it matters, trying dozen and dozen of passive parts to work on the last percents of sound improvment to voice the DAC, take the best practices of Vref design for the dac chips & adapted to the dac chip model for the layout; giving versatibility by allowing uf-connectors too for the digital input. Allowing the possibility of a buffer. Make the I/V stage versatile w/o sacrificing the layouting : the op amp for I/V can be op861(both R&C i/v smd or tht) or AD811 or classic VFA. Voltage follower op amp if needed (gain or buffer; to pilot a Muse volume chip for instance. And it has a direct curent output near the dac chip for wirering a tube I/V stage if not wanting op amps !

Took me 5 pcbs itterations and more than 2 years to make it good enough by my standard and road-map ! (on the picture 1 : V4 on table and V5 little green square board in the test box)

I also was inspired by Subbu and Jean-Paul work on a 9023 kit they made several years ago at democratic price.

Maybe I am biased but imo the quality difference is in the work in a kitchen made for monney and an enthusiast made in living room for really listened to it. (my standard is TDA1541A Taiwan sound from Rogic with moded output and digital front end with masterclock à la IanCanada or Andrea Mori). I think for the low price I have achieved something really nice to listen to with rythm and non fatiguing sound, snap, enough transparence, and voiced the best I can on acoustical instruents and voices.
Of course, a lot of diyers here achieves that goals already. The AD811 sounds good if voiced correctly (can be parodic and too much w/o care) but imo op861 voiced does as good (it's all about what is outside the chip too... what no chineese DAC from Ali can achieve)
 

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#1,376
yeah it is NOS. And not chineese (I use to bougth of all those chip boards on Ebay then in Ali... Really doesn't sound like a good developped DAC. And even the chips look fake on the picture....

I have had an AD1865 dac with discrete toshiba SK30A and some nice Toshiba bipolars... sounds like a crap ! Thanks China !
 
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#1,378
Please do and be happy ! The music will be excellent because your rigth brain will believe you made a good deal ! 😉 . Yes socket is a good idea for fast op amps and false NE5532. What I like is the so called "ad1862" not only looks fake but they have two sockets ! Wonderfull bargain !
 
#1,380
Yeah you like chineese DAC too. 🙂 You certainly reassured because you believe you look at the rigth places. ASR and 100 euros chineese DAC is all what you need. WHatever the left side of the brain find the music not good despite the good THD number seen by the rigth side that controll your wallet.

Must be generational, I don't often buy on Internet w/o having listened to it. Each timeI am disapointed. I only trust goodbrands or fanatics that spend time on their designs. Pavouk is okay btw. What will not give you that screen is experience. A PCM1704 24 bits oor a PCM58 doesn't sound better than an AD1862. A sigma Delta not the same than a PCM chips... It is also why I don't care of full SINAD god to choose a DAC like so many do with ASR and buying DAC on Internet without to know how it sounds.... A yes they all sounds the same, I have forgotten that ! 🤣🙄

At least it is better to buy from a chineese brand, you can re sell the device, which is not possible with Ali bargains...
 
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