I have even seen particle board (unfortunately).
I personally don't really see why there is such a bad reputation with MDF?
(especially among Americans it seems?)
If you just add proper bracing, it's often just fine. Obviously not as nice as (birch) plywood, but not every project needs that any way.
Also there are much higher grade MDF types (sometimes called HDF), which are really great to work with actually and extremely stiff.
Even already colored and veneered ones.
I am personally a huge fan of black V313 MDF.
I personally don't really see why there is such a bad reputation with MDF?
(especially among Americans it seems?)
If you just add proper bracing, it's often just fine. Obviously not as nice as (birch) plywood, but not every project needs that any way.
Also there are much higher grade MDF types (sometimes called HDF), which are really great to work with actually and extremely stiff.
Even already colored and veneered ones.
I am personally a huge fan of black V313 MDF.
Personally, I think if you are not exposing the plywood edge grain for visual reasons, there is little point using fancy types of plywood. The edge grain quality is what makes me so happy about the Garnica one I found.
I've never been concerned with the face quality as I could veneer it with whatever I like. Veneering as a single sheet and then using miter cuts is easier than trying to veneer the finished cabinet IME. The argument about 'sound' of the material is mostly mute too if you brace properly (cross-bracing, not shelf bracing). The only case I can think of where the sound might be important is talking about an open baffle where cross-bracing can't be done.
That said, I do dislike the dust from cutting MDF. Hardwood ply of any kind is less dusty.
Marine plywood is expensive and I believe the main difference is the type of glue they use, which is rather nasty smelly stuff when cutting. Don't even think about putting it on a laser cutter! I'd avoid it.
I've never been concerned with the face quality as I could veneer it with whatever I like. Veneering as a single sheet and then using miter cuts is easier than trying to veneer the finished cabinet IME. The argument about 'sound' of the material is mostly mute too if you brace properly (cross-bracing, not shelf bracing). The only case I can think of where the sound might be important is talking about an open baffle where cross-bracing can't be done.
That said, I do dislike the dust from cutting MDF. Hardwood ply of any kind is less dusty.
Marine plywood is expensive and I believe the main difference is the type of glue they use, which is rather nasty smelly stuff when cutting. Don't even think about putting it on a laser cutter! I'd avoid it.
For sure, but it adds to the cost, often a fairly good amount. Making a speaker out of MDF and veneering costs me more than just using a high grade plywood which if done well just needs a coating of whatever finish you may prefer. I have a good veneer supplier near me but it's $50 USD in shipping for any of their sheets.
Instead of veneering, one could also just use much cheaper thinner panels of nice plywood.
While the bulk is being done by (cheap) MDF.
4mm birch is much cheaper than like 15-18mm.
It's about a factor 3 here.
You could even stack up the sides, it's a bit laborious to do.
But along the realms of, if you can't make it, fake it.
This obviously also works with thicker off-cuts that you sometimes can get for cheap (or even free).
Or you just need to use a lot less birch in general, only some side strips.
see:
For veneer, it really depends what kind you're going for obviously
I have build many things in MDF. BUT after cutting Baltic Birch Ply, I really don´t want to use MDF again. I hate the smell and dust from MDF!
I have bought some WISA TWIN for my MEH´s. But I am a bit concerned, if that plywood is solid enough all the way through, where I have to mill for ports and recesses!? We will se. I can replace the vital panels with Baltic Birch if needed. The outer cabinet will be OK I think.
Steffen
I have bought some WISA TWIN for my MEH´s. But I am a bit concerned, if that plywood is solid enough all the way through, where I have to mill for ports and recesses!? We will se. I can replace the vital panels with Baltic Birch if needed. The outer cabinet will be OK I think.
Steffen
A high-end speaker manufacturer would use high-density materials and plywood does not fall into this category. Sorry, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. All the science for cabinet design and materials is published so I won't elaborate.
You can stick to whatever you want, but your understanding of the matter is limited and your conclusions flawed.
It's not just about density. It's actually about the ratio of stiffness (measured as Young's modulus, E) to density (rho).
Typical values are as follows.
MDF: E/rho = 5.3•10^6 m/s^2
HDF is higher stiffness but also higher density resulting in a similar ratio E/rho = 5.7•10^6 m/s^2
Birch plywood is even stiffer and at the same time it's also lighter, hence E/rho = 10•10^6 m/s^2
Ergo, BB is objectively almost twice as good as MDF or HDF!
hi Marco - I'm unfamiliar with this reasoning, I was under the assumption that stiffness was the only thing that mattered, not density. Could you please explain further or point me to some reading about this?
Danley makes pro audio sound reinforcement speakers that go on stage tours. They get shipped from place to place and banged around in trucks and dropped etc. mechanical durability is probably more important than stiffness for acoustic reasons. Also, stiffness is not everything. If durability is not a concern, even soft paper face foam core with constrained layer damping (CLD) and bracing can make excellent sounding and measuring horn speakers.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/prv-5mr450-ndy-for-fast-waw-applications.259293/page-10
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/prv-5mr450-ndy-for-fast-waw-applications.259293/page-10
And much, much heavier. I built a cab for an 18" sub that way and though it is rock solid, it also weighs nearly 200 pounds.
I've used this stuff recently. It was garbage and an absolute pig to work with. Delaminates easily in places, full of voids, the layers are wonky and it seems to warp once cut into smaller pieces. It took numerous clamps and mucking about to get things straight. I also wonder how long it will take to fall apart since whilst I used lots of decent glue and plenty of screws to hold panels together I have no idea on the long term integrity of the ply itself.
In a nutshell, I went back to birch for the next cabs and paid over twice the price. My thinking here is that if the poplar cabs start falling apart then I've got fewer to replace.
A lot of pro manufactures in sound-reinforcement actually use poplar plywood.
Just to safe a substantial amount of weight.
Good professional coatings protect them against any damages and such.
The rest is all about proper bracing.
At those sound pressure levels, a bit of panel resonances are not on your top priority.
There are other difficulties far more important and difficult to keep at bay.
I like how the birch faced poplar plywood feels lighter. Bracing does wonders to control resonance and add rigidity.
I don't think that's true, about using polar plywood.
I keep pretty close tabs on prosound boxes, and all of the big dogs, both US and international, continue to list multi-ply birch in the specification sheets.
This is true for both line-array hangs as well as smaller install boxes.
Maybe smaller companies use poplar...dunno...
And ime, subwoofer panel resonances go absolutely crazy at high SPL...it's more important to kill them for live sound than for home, i think.
Recently saw Ed Sheerin's current tour where he uses line arrays as counterweights for the light shows all hanging from a single fly point,
depended on getting a 25% lighter version of his previous line array rig, but maintain the heavier rig's SPL.
He got it, still using baltic-birch...
That's a shame, and thanks for the heads-up.
When I said 'a few years' ago' I now realise it was about six! I suppose it's been dumbed-down and priced up like so many products which were once good quality...
Nice, Can't argue with that ! 🙂
Like I said, I don't follow many prosound companies, other than the big dogs...Meyer, L'Acoustic, D&B, Martin, RCF, etc etc...
My guess is that tier of companies doesn't do a lot of design outsourcing....but that has nothing to do with box material, huh?