I think if you watch the video I referenced above from Dowelmax it will eliminate any doubt about just how strong dowels can be. Of course, that's a commercial to sell their product, the Dowelmax jig. But the principle holds regardless of the brand.
I use a Jessem Doweling jig, not the Dowelmax, but the result is exactly the same regardless of how you manage to drill the holes. Doweling can provide more joint strength than any of the alternatives, including mortise and tenon and Dominos.
The real advantage of the Dominos is how quickly you can make the necessary cuts. But that comes with the very high price of the tool itself. For someone who is making lots of joints the Domino probably pays for itself. But for the occassional joint needed by a hobbyist woodworker a doweling jig like the Jessem is all that you need.
I use a Jessem Doweling jig, not the Dowelmax, but the result is exactly the same regardless of how you manage to drill the holes. Doweling can provide more joint strength than any of the alternatives, including mortise and tenon and Dominos.
The real advantage of the Dominos is how quickly you can make the necessary cuts. But that comes with the very high price of the tool itself. For someone who is making lots of joints the Domino probably pays for itself. But for the occassional joint needed by a hobbyist woodworker a doweling jig like the Jessem is all that you need.
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I saved the web page to view it with more attention. Used a dovetailing jig once that if you have everything set perfect, it was sight to behold. If not, well that was a different outcome,😡 and the cabinet might end up a little smaller. Of course, that is a somewhat different topic.
I do have one question probably answered in the video, and that is about different grain orientations and the use of dowelling. End to end will always be the worst choice of joints, but perpendicular grained wood joint, as is the case in this speaker build would have the dowels intersecting two different grain directions. I have not a seen a problem with that unless the cross grain piece of wood were to chip out at the end.
I do have one question probably answered in the video, and that is about different grain orientations and the use of dowelling. End to end will always be the worst choice of joints, but perpendicular grained wood joint, as is the case in this speaker build would have the dowels intersecting two different grain directions. I have not a seen a problem with that unless the cross grain piece of wood were to chip out at the end.
Yeah, your question is answered in the video. In fact, the joint being tested is end grain in one board connected to long grain in the other. You might be surprised at the exact mode of failure with dowels.
Thanks. I am open to discuss anything wood or stereo. IME, most of the wood slabs were massive enough that you could get away with more than if your material was 3/4" or less thick. In fact, customers had the odd idea that if you built something small like a jewelry box, their must be less effort involved. I rarely took on such projects just because of the easily made mistakes in 1/4" wood. Hah, metal projects can be even less forgiving!
I watched the video and was very impressed by the 'sameness' of the preparation of the joints, and even more so by the test equipment process. Proper curing time was given as well. We all know how it can be when a method or product is touted as superior without enough reasonable proof. This video is step by step and accurate.
I think that we are swayed too often just on the word of an 'expert'. People say things that just sound right. After all, I believed that Pluto was a planet for decades! So, my point here is that this demonstration proved to be valuable enough for me to change my mind. Interesting really. I have never used dominos, but they seemed as good as anything else. Why exactly would there be such a large difference between them and doweling or even maybe a tenon?
I think that we are swayed too often just on the word of an 'expert'. People say things that just sound right. After all, I believed that Pluto was a planet for decades! So, my point here is that this demonstration proved to be valuable enough for me to change my mind. Interesting really. I have never used dominos, but they seemed as good as anything else. Why exactly would there be such a large difference between them and doweling or even maybe a tenon?
Glad to see that you watched the video and changed your mind about doweling.
The big difference between the three methods, M&T, Dominos and doweling, really lies mainly in the time require to make the joints. All three make very strong joints that are more than adequate for most projects. The fact that doweling is somewhat stronger than the others isn't really as important as the ease of use and cost of the tool itself.
M&T joinery can be done be done several different ways, but it is always going to be slower than the others. First there is the old fashion way of marking the parts and cutting them out with hand tools. Some people enjoy doing it this way just because of the use of hand tools. It's slow but very gratifying to them.
Then there are more modern ways using some M&T accessories that clamp the work pieces into position and guide a drill with a straight cutting bit in it. This is much faster than using hand tools, but still slower than the other methods mentioned below. And these jigs are rather expensive, about $400 and up.
Doweling is faster than the guided M&T method and good jigs like the Jessem and Dowelmax start at about $115. Cheaper doweling jigs, however, are not worth the money. They don't make good, accurate joints. I gave away two of those cheap doweling jigs after wasting my money on them. Then bought the Jessem.
Finally, there is the Domino. Fastest method of all, but very expensive. Probably not worth the investment for a hobbyist, but some people might just like to have and use it anyhow.
The big difference between the three methods, M&T, Dominos and doweling, really lies mainly in the time require to make the joints. All three make very strong joints that are more than adequate for most projects. The fact that doweling is somewhat stronger than the others isn't really as important as the ease of use and cost of the tool itself.
M&T joinery can be done be done several different ways, but it is always going to be slower than the others. First there is the old fashion way of marking the parts and cutting them out with hand tools. Some people enjoy doing it this way just because of the use of hand tools. It's slow but very gratifying to them.
Then there are more modern ways using some M&T accessories that clamp the work pieces into position and guide a drill with a straight cutting bit in it. This is much faster than using hand tools, but still slower than the other methods mentioned below. And these jigs are rather expensive, about $400 and up.
Doweling is faster than the guided M&T method and good jigs like the Jessem and Dowelmax start at about $115. Cheaper doweling jigs, however, are not worth the money. They don't make good, accurate joints. I gave away two of those cheap doweling jigs after wasting my money on them. Then bought the Jessem.
Finally, there is the Domino. Fastest method of all, but very expensive. Probably not worth the investment for a hobbyist, but some people might just like to have and use it anyhow.
A very wierd question
One of 9ft Lumber piece had wood borer beetle larve inside, I started cutting from both ends until I stopped seeing tunnels filled with powdered wood and discarded that part. The remaining piece is clean from both ends (BTW there were no holes on surface). Is there any way to make sure there are no larve inside the salvaged wood?
Can larve be detected with X-ray 😀 or Ultrasound, I'll take Lumber to hospital 😀
Is there a realistic method to make sure that there are no larve inside salvaged wood other than using chemical spray?
One of 9ft Lumber piece had wood borer beetle larve inside, I started cutting from both ends until I stopped seeing tunnels filled with powdered wood and discarded that part. The remaining piece is clean from both ends (BTW there were no holes on surface). Is there any way to make sure there are no larve inside the salvaged wood?
Can larve be detected with X-ray 😀 or Ultrasound, I'll take Lumber to hospital 😀
Is there a realistic method to make sure that there are no larve inside salvaged wood other than using chemical spray?
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Just sharing another option. I am using Dowel-it and worked perfect for me. This one has all standard hole sizes available on single piece. But do check Jessem and compare.
The problem with Dowl-it is that you can only drill one hole at a time. Then you have to unclamp it, move it, and reclamp it to drill the next hole. So, it's very slow to use.
But an ever bigger issue is that there is only one hole for each size. So there is no way to reference the next hole position from the previous one. You just have to measure and try to get it right.
The Jessem and Dowelmax have multiple holes of the same size. With the 3/8" insert, for example, you can drill up to 5 holes without having to move it.
And when you want to continue a row of holes it's very easy and accurate to reference the next position from the previous one using the Indexing Pin.
Big difference in both speed and accuracy with either the Jessem or Dowelmax compared to the Dowl-it and other similar products.
But an ever bigger issue is that there is only one hole for each size. So there is no way to reference the next hole position from the previous one. You just have to measure and try to get it right.
The Jessem and Dowelmax have multiple holes of the same size. With the 3/8" insert, for example, you can drill up to 5 holes without having to move it.
And when you want to continue a row of holes it's very easy and accurate to reference the next position from the previous one using the Indexing Pin.
Big difference in both speed and accuracy with either the Jessem or Dowelmax compared to the Dowl-it and other similar products.
Yes, that stopped me cold once I mis drilled a hole. Back then, you might use a metal insert with a point in the center to help locate hole position, but it wasn't an absolute unless you had the right bit (Forstner flat bottomed bit) and drill press.
@classicalfan you are certainly one opinionated feller and can beat the heck out of the proverbial dead horse (is that equine abuse?……ahh different thread!) 😉
Anyhoo, as a master craftsman who makes his living from wood (cabinets/furniture) I recommend capt jack keep using his dowel-it jig for edge to edge panel glue up not for strength but ease and accuracy of clamping (agreement that you can never have too many clamps!) classicalfan’s arguments hold no water in this application only as pertaining to mortise & tenon joints (a joint which i’ve never used in a speaker box) and if you do find yourself in need of that option, Task brand makes a dowel-it style jig with removable guides that allows indexing and/or drilling a 2nd,3rd,4th hole* without moving (*With optional extra inserts) The dowel-it type is a fool/bullet proof design that will withstand years of abuse (proven by yours truly)
I do use the lock miter 45’ bits mentioned (with great success) but in a heavy shaper machine, router tables are best built into a large cabinet if used for this application (stability)
Anyhoo, as a master craftsman who makes his living from wood (cabinets/furniture) I recommend capt jack keep using his dowel-it jig for edge to edge panel glue up not for strength but ease and accuracy of clamping (agreement that you can never have too many clamps!) classicalfan’s arguments hold no water in this application only as pertaining to mortise & tenon joints (a joint which i’ve never used in a speaker box) and if you do find yourself in need of that option, Task brand makes a dowel-it style jig with removable guides that allows indexing and/or drilling a 2nd,3rd,4th hole* without moving (*With optional extra inserts) The dowel-it type is a fool/bullet proof design that will withstand years of abuse (proven by yours truly)
I do use the lock miter 45’ bits mentioned (with great success) but in a heavy shaper machine, router tables are best built into a large cabinet if used for this application (stability)
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From your description it sounds like powder post beetles (or the India equivalent) wiping the wood down with a sopping wet rag of naptha/mineral spirits will kill any left alive, it will evaporate without a trace.
My comments had nothing to do with edge to edge joinery. But I agree with you that doweling in that case is much more about achieving alignment than adding strength.
I was discussing edge to side joinery that the Dowl-it or Task jigs are incapable of doing.
So in that regard I think that those are poor investments and people are much better off spending their money to buy a more versitale doweling jig such as the Jessem or Dowelmax that can do both edge to edge and edge to side joinery with very high precision.
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I really should have use the term end to side joinery rather than edge to side in the previous post. That's much more accurate with regard to typical speaker cabinet construction.
But it doesn't change the arguments against the Dowl-it or Task jigs. They are only applicable for edge to edge joinery, which isn't sufficient for all the joints necessary in building speaker cabinets.
Both Jessem and Dowelmax can do it all.
But it doesn't change the arguments against the Dowl-it or Task jigs. They are only applicable for edge to edge joinery, which isn't sufficient for all the joints necessary in building speaker cabinets.
Both Jessem and Dowelmax can do it all.
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Left Speaker - All pieces cut except back panel and three 2.5 inch braces. Back panel will also be screw mounted using gasket.
- Maybe glueup tomorrow.
- Using double baffle, one is recessed 3/4 plywood. Front one is 1 inch thick hard wood and is as per design, will be attaching centre of front baffle to recessed baffle permanently using glue and dowels, away from centre using bolts to allow for wood movement of 1 inch thick panel. 1 inch thick panel will not be attached to side panels as front baffle will expand/contract and rip the side panels. That's is what I understood about wood movement.
- Few days gap, then driver cutouts, wiring.
- Will be using rubber paint to seal cabinet.
- Back panel and the onto right Speaker Front, back, most pieces are already cut.
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Hello Everyone,
Please let me know If I am correct in saying that diffraction shouldn't be an issue on inside of a sealed cabinet as sound waves are trapped inside.
Please let me know If I am correct in saying that diffraction shouldn't be an issue on inside of a sealed cabinet as sound waves are trapped inside.
I used to think the same but the fact is that the sound comes right back through the driver cone. So resonance that is heard inside the cabinet will be heard outside the cabinet as well.