Yes, I am a long time CLIO user, since version 4. FFT of multitone signal is the most revealing.
Resonances have two independent/unrelated parameters - Q and duration. So, difficult to quantify in absolute terms. There should be less than 10 cycles.
Using professional sound reinforcing drivers maybe is new/unusual/illogical concept to the most of the audiophiles, but for more than 25 years I am advocating, building and selling exactly the same concept to the happily surprised audiophiles.
Look at the pricelist😳 I do like the concept, with the wooden basket, super tweeter and sub, high efficiency. I wonder if an experienced diy builder could come close on a tighter budget.
Intermodulation distortion is a function of harmonic distortion. Lower the harmonic distortion, lower the intermod distortion. But what about frequency modulation when the driver is operating over a large bandwidth? I have been pondering this recently and how multiple driver speakers could reduce frequency modulation. The ultimate example is the Revel Ultima Salon II. Mark100 also built a 5-way MEH recently and remarked on the increased clarity over his other MEHs. In another thread, several folks commented on how good a 5-way was:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/dahlquist-dq-10-flashback.122871/
The dq10 doesn’t look like much. But it has serious pedigree, what with the comarions to Quad electrostats:
https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/174dq10/index.html
This is an aside from CDs though I wonder if Be has properties that keep the frequency modulation low.
the Marten were pretty good at face value, and they played quite a bit of different music. If you want to play 70s material I find it best to use a tube amp with loads of H2 color to partially cancel out the SS electronics they were recorded on and get that vintage, period accurate sound. I stayed for a couple mins in the Marten room. More than can be said for 99% of the other rooms. I spent most of the time in 2 rooms only for my true listening enjoyment. Good thing about Munich: these rooms do exist. There are system that really make you stop thinking about audio and make you enjoy the music.
When two or more signals are reproduced simultaneously, both intermodulation and frequency modulation distortions emerges. Both can be measured and displayed, FFT of multitone signal is a convenient way.
Funny (or not!) some swear by the sound quality of single-fullrange loudspeakers, which by definition have maximum frequency modulation distortion.
Hi guys,
I did a quick comparison TAD 4001+seos 30 and 4003+TH4003. High pass filter at 600hz no eq. Mic around 1M from the horn.
I was surprise that 4001+ seos does not have flat freq response. Pink: 4003, teal: 4001
Is this normal? After I eq 4001 it does sound similar with 4003.
Thanks
I did a quick comparison TAD 4001+seos 30 and 4003+TH4003. High pass filter at 600hz no eq. Mic around 1M from the horn.
I was surprise that 4001+ seos does not have flat freq response. Pink: 4003, teal: 4001
Is this normal? After I eq 4001 it does sound similar with 4003.
Thanks
Attachments
Both amplitude modulation and frequency modulation contribute IMD.
But AM is much audible compare to FM.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/best-compression-drivers-today-2022.382609/post-7330196
I think typical measurement software cannot distinguish the two. Need Klipple to do the analysis.
But one driver with very clean IMD indicate no AM and FM right?
I think the 65CDN-T performs really well in Troy's measurement.
But AM is much audible compare to FM.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/best-compression-drivers-today-2022.382609/post-7330196
I think typical measurement software cannot distinguish the two. Need Klipple to do the analysis.
But one driver with very clean IMD indicate no AM and FM right?
I think the 65CDN-T performs really well in Troy's measurement.
JBL manage to do it with a 2 way with very low distortion, in both the M2 (active crossover) and the 4367 (passive crossover)
4367 (source:https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/jbl-4367-review-by-erin.32689/ )
M2 (Source: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/jbl_m2/)
the design of the M2 is a commercial compromise i have the JBL 2216ND in a 150L bass reflex and i think it"s a trade off to push this 15 inch to 800z . 400hz is the acceptable limit for my ears .. 🤔
Imaging is perhaps more important than IMD:
While they could use a 3 ohms in series with the HF horn to attenuate 'the sand' in the voice, the Klipsch clearly image MUCH better than the JBL, off the youtube vid. There, I said it. 😉
You cannot say anything meaningfull at all about imaging from a youtube vid. There, I said it ;-)
well you just may have saved yourself a lot of money. hard for me to say as I can't tell with this set up. reposition the speakers and things will sound different. I would have to be there and play to know what I was hearing.
I would be hard pressed to find a less suited partner for the 4001, it should be nowhere close to flat 🙂
//Anders
yess i can recognise the awfull sounding of the Klipsh in an instant 😀 but i would not take the JBL either as having the same 15 inch driver at home , pushing it to 700hz is a bad idea ..
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I listened to the 4367 several times, and I think they sound great. Maybe the problem is not the driver, but the crossover or the box?
Yep. I've pondered that quite a bit.
Abstracting a bit, it seems to me the virtue of a single full ranger, is that it somewhat approaches a point-source.
Which gives it a rather good & consistent time domain behaviour to all locations. Both in terms of fixed constant delay, and phase response (owing to not having any crossovers.
And not to mention proving rather uniform frequency response devoid of lobing.
I guess the problem with a full-ranger has always been limited SPL, particularly so with the bass and treble extensions.
So i kinda think full-rangers are often used knowingly within their inherent limitations, putting less demand on low-end excursion which mitigates modulation somewhat.
My pure speculation.....