Regarding discussion of headphone cables, have recently done some listening tests using planar headphones (which are around 20-40 ohms impedance). Panel says cable construction, materials, gauge, and length can all have some audible effect.
Hello,
Question for you. If you are not using extremely thin wiring, why would not simply making the wire thicker (less resistance) not stop any skin effect or skin imperfections to have any noticeable effect? Skin effect has been shown multiple times to have very little effect at audio frequencies. Now if you hare listening at RF frequencies, you have a point. Personally I don't listen to RF.
Regards,
Greg
Its not simply a matter of resistance. See Bateman, at least for one aspect (attached). Also cable mechanical construction and materials can have some effect.
Yes, there are quite small effects at audio frequencies. No argument. But not enough to matter and show up in any quality blind test I have ever heard of. Personally I worry about things that are large enough to actually make a difference. And of course there is equipment being sold out there that is not designed to minimize cable effects. A well designed set does just that, makes it pretty much a non issue. See quote below:
Interconnect Cables - Bruno Putzeys
"On the other hand, there is the "sound engineering" solution: use a signal source with the lowest possible impedance. Charges generated and transferred because of either effect are absorbed at the source and the receiving end will never get to see it. I have been surprised, though, of how low this drive impedance should be before cable microphonics disappear below the noise floor of good audio gear.
Summary
To recap: to make cables disappear from the sonic equation, all that is needed is balanced transmission combined with sub-1ohm output impedance line drivers. I would like to propose this as a standard for audiophile equipment makers.
It shows that people who claim that cables do not make a difference are plainly deluding themselves. On the other hand, those that say that cables should not make a difference, are dead right."
Regards,
Greg
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From the Conclusion paragraph of "Audio Cable Distortion is not a myth!", Richard Black, AES Paper 6858
The audio cable market certainly owes something to the
appeal of ‘audio jewellery’ but there is also, with little
doubt, a significant element of self-delusion on the part
of consumers and probably also reviewers, retailers and
manufacturers. However, this paper has suggested a
plausible mechanism, not invoking any outlandish
concept, by which differences between loudspeaker
cables may on occasion become audible. The cure - low
resistance and low inductance - is simple and relatively
inexpensive to apply and it is to be hoped that more
manufacturers will attempt to do so.
The audio cable market certainly owes something to the
appeal of ‘audio jewellery’ but there is also, with little
doubt, a significant element of self-delusion on the part
of consumers and probably also reviewers, retailers and
manufacturers. However, this paper has suggested a
plausible mechanism, not invoking any outlandish
concept, by which differences between loudspeaker
cables may on occasion become audible. The cure - low
resistance and low inductance - is simple and relatively
inexpensive to apply and it is to be hoped that more
manufacturers will attempt to do so.
Would agree low resistance and low inductance are two of the more significant factors. Star-quad cable helps with the latter.
Star quad cable has higher capacitance than regular and therefore more high frequency loss.
Only usually used when you have some serious RF problems like a radio station next door.
Only usually used when you have some serious RF problems like a radio station next door.
If you have some planer headphones (we use Audeze) and are willing to do a few experiments to see for yourself, I could describe how to prepare some cables for a test. We use a rather hefty headphone amp that can easily supply plenty of current for planars and also at dac at least at the level of Topping D90, or better. The system very hi-fi (especially if we use the better dac). Small details are accurately reproduced, and easily audible. In this type of situation, yes, cable differences tend to be plainly audible.
Have you tried, say, the Canare line of star-quad speaker cable (maybe 6' or 8' long), or are you speaking more from theory?
https://www.canare.com/speakercable/
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Canare braided shield 2 conductor = 106 or 117 pF/m;
Canare braided shield star-quad = 185-200 pF/m.
This is for microphone cable since you mentioned star-quad. For speakers it is just called 'four conductor' cable.
Canare braided shield star-quad = 185-200 pF/m.
This is for microphone cable since you mentioned star-quad. For speakers it is just called 'four conductor' cable.
Star-Quad refers to how the four conductors are connected.
There are Star-Quad:
a] AC power cords
b] balanced interconnect cables (and mic cables)
c] speaker cables
There are Star-Quad:
a] AC power cords
b] balanced interconnect cables (and mic cables)
c] speaker cables
Not sure copper annealing/work hardening changes its resistance, but if any, must be by a completely inaudible microscopic value.
Might be barely measurable, but many here claiming supenatural ears despise measurements, so ....
Of course inductance and capacitance will NOT change, since geometry does not.
As of the suggested technique, it´s not a "gradual" process taking days, it just implies simply reaching a certain temperature and then coming back to normal, after a time measured in minutes rather than days.
Emphasis on "reaching a certain temperature"; plain passing current through wire will do nothing otherwise.
I much suspect that plastic insulation surrounding copper wire will melt or evaporate at such temperatures which turns the technique sort of impractical for audio cables discussed here.
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I have found that of all the cables that we use in our systems, the power cables have the most affect on how the system sounds. They are draining away the high frequency harmonics and noise of the power supply to the very low impedance commercial power company. Many people say that running a new cable with a load for a while, "burning it in" helps the cable sound better.
Here's where you have to be careful. Its one thing to say you hear something, which maybe you do. Its a very different thing to try to explain the physics of how and why the sound is affected. Probably better to leave out the theories at this point, especially in a technical forum like this. They detract from your credibility, which then makes people tend to have doubts about everything else you say.
So say 10 meters, 33 feet, 2,000 pFd.
What is the reactance at 20kHz? (about 4k ohms)
Or if you prefer, 100 meters (football field) at 100kHz? (about 80 ohms)
Yes, fussy amplifiers can become RF transmitters. But any 8 Ohm amp that has 'high frequency loss' from an 80 ohm load is a weakling.
I'm with Markw4, and would refrain from making such a claim unless I could provide the physical mechanism behind it.
All I know is that harmonic frequencies in the power system can be damped by providing them with a low impedance path to ground.
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