Yes, the row below the display. I suppose they do look a bit brown indeed; I never noticed.
I have sent you a PM!
Ok, now @Bjirre has Window 95 and 98 running on his machine, Pandora’s box has opened here. Until now, I had left it closed, because there was no point in opening it for a DOS machine.
Pandora’s box, here, contains vintage CPUs and RAM. Stuff that‘s not taking up space, hence not saving any by tossing it out. And for as long as I’m buying used x86 based Test & Measurement, I’m very cautious about what I throw away. So I’ve opened my UPL, and started to expand it.
The stock CPU is an IDT WinChip C6. Ironic, for a DOS machine. But what’s more remarkable, is that it’s clocked at 133MHz, instead of the 200MHz it is rated for. Perhaps this is done to reduce heat dissipation, or perhaps because all EMC tests were done at 133MHz and R&S didn’t want to go through that again for additional performance they didn’t need anyway. It does have a heatsink with fan installed, but no cooling paste was applied.
Did anybody here, especially the people running Windows, increase the clock frequency, or replace the CPU with a faster one? Pandora’s box here still contains an AMD K6-III+ rated for 380MHz. A 500MHz version exists, but is in high demand by vintage gamers.
Did anybody here increase the RAM? My machine has 32MiB in 2 72-pin SIMMs. I don’t know if that’s stock, or that I installed that. But I did find 3x 128MiB DIMMs in Pandora’s box. They are PC-133 memory, where PC-100 is required, but I don’t think that’s a problem. What is a problem, is the SuperCap on the R&S board right where the DIMMs are, and the heights of the DIMMs themselves.
Does anybody know what’s the largest harddisk size supported?
Having Windows running on this instrument VASTLY increases its usability, because it enables network access, eliminating the need for mucking around with floppies or floppy images. Thanks @Bjirre!
Pandora’s box, here, contains vintage CPUs and RAM. Stuff that‘s not taking up space, hence not saving any by tossing it out. And for as long as I’m buying used x86 based Test & Measurement, I’m very cautious about what I throw away. So I’ve opened my UPL, and started to expand it.
The stock CPU is an IDT WinChip C6. Ironic, for a DOS machine. But what’s more remarkable, is that it’s clocked at 133MHz, instead of the 200MHz it is rated for. Perhaps this is done to reduce heat dissipation, or perhaps because all EMC tests were done at 133MHz and R&S didn’t want to go through that again for additional performance they didn’t need anyway. It does have a heatsink with fan installed, but no cooling paste was applied.
Did anybody here, especially the people running Windows, increase the clock frequency, or replace the CPU with a faster one? Pandora’s box here still contains an AMD K6-III+ rated for 380MHz. A 500MHz version exists, but is in high demand by vintage gamers.
Did anybody here increase the RAM? My machine has 32MiB in 2 72-pin SIMMs. I don’t know if that’s stock, or that I installed that. But I did find 3x 128MiB DIMMs in Pandora’s box. They are PC-133 memory, where PC-100 is required, but I don’t think that’s a problem. What is a problem, is the SuperCap on the R&S board right where the DIMMs are, and the heights of the DIMMs themselves.
Does anybody know what’s the largest harddisk size supported?
Having Windows running on this instrument VASTLY increases its usability, because it enables network access, eliminating the need for mucking around with floppies or floppy images. Thanks @Bjirre!
I don’t recommend that you increase the cpu speed, your system might indeed produce more heat and consume more current on the linear PSU that is already getting hot.
All the UPL I have are also downgraded on the CPU clock, 133MHz is enough.
I have some with AMD, some with C6 and some with intel CPU.
As for the memory yes I did put 128MB on one of them that I had in my spare PC parts but honestly does not change anything vs the original 32MB.
All the UPL I have are also downgraded on the CPU clock, 133MHz is enough.
I have some with AMD, some with C6 and some with intel CPU.
As for the memory yes I did put 128MB on one of them that I had in my spare PC parts but honestly does not change anything vs the original 32MB.
Ah, thanks; You have just saved me a a lot of work, and potential power supply troubles.
I'm using the modern version of the motherboards that R&S provided in their latest revisions. This holds 300Mhz and 128MB of RAM. See pictures on my drive link.
With this setup I have been rocking windows 98 for over a year now.
In my experience CPU clock and RAM does not influence the R&S application at all. It's still a DOS application and in Windows only Upper memory is what's counting for DOS applications.
I would argue that my flash disk replacement is adding more speed than anything else for the R&S application.
However, if you like me would like to use windows as an OS itself and to increase the usability of the analyzer then more CPU and RAM will definitely increase your windows experience. Again, for DOS it will not matter.
In this configuration I think it's the best combination of both worlds. I can screenshot directly into windows, keep my sac files on my network and print directly to my color printer. No longer are the days of floppies but big installers can be copied over the network. I have visual basic, acrobat and other software installed on it.
If you would have an older type of motherboard, you definitely need to keep the PSU in mind as Alex_twn mentioned, some people here have burned out marks on those rails. The newer type of motherboard is far more power efficient.
So, in the end, not impossible if you want to go for Windows 98, I definitely recommend it. Makes it super fun to use.
Cheers,
Bart
Hm; That explains all the talking about CF-cards. I wonder what's under the black aluminum shield. It looks like a standard PC/104 industrial embedded mainboard. And if it contains a National Semiconductor Geode GX1, it's by no means a power house. Not even at 300MHz. But it is a lot faster than a C6 @133MHz, and it is very power efficient.
The carrier board looks R&S made, so it will be impossible to find.
Yes, but that's possibly a can of worms, due to LBA-addressing and CHS-adressing. That's probably why your initial images didn't work.
I'm thinking about buying a PATA-133 drive for my machine though.
It's exactly that what's I'm after. Direct file saving, direct screenshots and direct printing.
I got that message, but it's unclear to me exactly what linear power supply. Not on the AI5VG+ mainboard, I suppose: That one is intended for CPUs all the way up to an AMD K6-III+ @500MHz.
Is it a power supply in the instrument somewhere? And can it be upgraded?
The power supply is the main one from the UPL. It is all linear to ensure the lowest output noise. There are a couple of regulators with a very big one (LT1083) supplying the 5V to the PC.
It is already rated at 7.5A which is very large for a linear regulator, not sure if you can find something better.
In my opinion it is better to keep the psu as it is and look for a low power computer like the geode one. I was thinking about this in the past and I checked some industrial pc based on geode or similar from advantech or adlink for example. There are a lot on eBay not too expensive. But then you’ll have to sort out the ISA connection to the UPL digital board.
Then I completely agree with Bjrre on the cpu/memory upgrade, on DOS it does not change anything. The only good thing I did as well is the CF upgrade to replace the HDD, much more silent and maybe a bit faster + power consumption reduced (spinning disk vs. flash)
It is already rated at 7.5A which is very large for a linear regulator, not sure if you can find something better.
In my opinion it is better to keep the psu as it is and look for a low power computer like the geode one. I was thinking about this in the past and I checked some industrial pc based on geode or similar from advantech or adlink for example. There are a lot on eBay not too expensive. But then you’ll have to sort out the ISA connection to the UPL digital board.
Then I completely agree with Bjrre on the cpu/memory upgrade, on DOS it does not change anything. The only good thing I did as well is the CF upgrade to replace the HDD, much more silent and maybe a bit faster + power consumption reduced (spinning disk vs. flash)
Unfortunately I don't have a spare front panel to spare, in fact I'm still looking for a digital board to complete my unitDoes anybody here (@simingx ?) have spare for-parts front panel?
I got my UPL off of eBay, many years ago, and when it arrived, it had one button below the display missing. Of course it was not missing on auction photos, but the seller said he was unaware, and offered me to return it, transatlantically.
Anyway; I would love to have a replacement button. I think they come all together in a strip. I prefer a whole strip, but beggars can't be choosers, so I'd already be very happy with just one button.
I can only offer monetary compensation, as I have no spare parts to trade, and free software upgrades with my UPL Keygen, which - by the way - is still way under-starred
It looks like the one from a UPV will fit as well, but nobody sells one...
@Bjirre , thanks for your incredible work and the published info. I have the same Analyzer here in Spain, some time ago doing the LCD replacement the flex wiring from front panel broke. Do you still have an spare pcb rev3 left that I can buy from you?
If not. Can I get the Gerber files of that revision to make one to replace my original front panel keyboard (I use also JCLPCB service)? I cannot send PM directly here. Sorry for the inconvenience.
If not. Can I get the Gerber files of that revision to make one to replace my original front panel keyboard (I use also JCLPCB service)? I cannot send PM directly here. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Hi Andy, thanks for the compliment!
Yes, I do have some left, you can reach me here if PM doesn’t work. info@bvksound.be
Cheers,
Bart
Hello,Unfortunately I don't have a spare front panel to spare, in fact I'm still looking for a digital board to complete my unit
It looks like the one from a UPV will fit as well, but nobody sells one...
You look for the main B2 option board or just for the front panel board that is connected to it?
Ah, I see; It is indeed not a good idea to load that any further than it already is.
I understand. That would require me to re-create the carrier board as shown on @Bjirre's photos, which is possibly just a PC/104 to Mirrored ISA converter, but possibly with a keyboard interface and some other peripherals on it. I think that's a bridge too far for me.
Much to my own surprise, I didn't upgrade the harddisk to an SSD yet. As you guys said; when running DOS, other upgrades make few sense.
But pleas tell me from your experience: Does the stock AI5VG+ mainboard with the under-clocked WinChip C6 @133MHz run Windows 95 acceptably? Optionally I could add a RAM and update to an SSD. I don't need it to run Doom; I only need it to share files over the network, and perhaps print them.
Maybe a step to move forward is to setup your motherboard and flash storage, you can even use a premade image from me. This way you can judge the windows performance and tune to your needs while monitoring current draw.
R&S will run either way but you need to be satisfied with the smoothness of the overall system.
I have never run this setup with the older style as i got the newer style of motherboards.
Let me know where i can help on the image side of things.
I have the B2(9) board, just need the front panel board that connects to it.
In this case, i can definitely support in helping measure out the original and sourcing parts based on the original.
Unfortunately it turns out not to be that easy, and I've got an eerie feeling of deja vu. The original 4GB hard drive was broken and now I'm going through the motions again, I think I have tried to upgrade it to a 64GB SSD before, failed, and put back in an 80GB rotary drive instead.
So last week I ordered a Transcend TS64GPSD330 SSD. It has a PATA interface and it's 64GB in size. Given that the rotary drive is 80GB, I assumed this to work. Unfortunately, it does not. It is auto-detected as a 123MB drive (225 cylinders, 15 heads, 63 sectors, normal mode). But even if I 'fix' those geometry parameters to 16383 cylinders, 15 heads, 63 sectors, what the datasheet says, DOS still doesn't detect is. I can partition it with fdisk, but after reboot, fdisk sees no partitions, and DOS does not have C drive. When dumping your Windows 98SE image on this drive, it just won't boot.
I have tried flashing the patched BIOS published here, but awdflash reports the BIOS to be write-protected. So I took out the EEPROM to flash it with my EPROM programmer, and I noticed that the Award label has been pried off before. It think that was of my previous attempt, years ago. Unfortunately, I cannot verify what BIOS is installed, because my EPROM programmer needs a Windows PC with a parallel port, which I do not have.
I'm pretty sure the Transcend geometry parameters are wrong, since the add up to a 7.3GB drive, but in that case it should work like a 7.3GB drive, and unfortunately it does not.
I have dropped the guy who patched the BIOS an email. He's Dutch too and perhaps he's able to shed some light on this mystery.
Ok; I was able to connect my EPROM programmer to my R&S spectrum analyzer, and I dumped the BIOS. It turned out to be very different from the patched version. So I found a spare compatible EEPROM and I put the patched version in it. It did initialize after power-up and it even identified as a patch version at the start-up screen. Unfortunately, it too showed the same error identifying the SSD. So no improvement there.
Given the differences between the EEPROM contents, it seems like R&S did put a fairly customize BIOS in this mainboard. I think this is something to bear in mind when replacing the mainboard with another TMC AI5VG+, one that was not harvested from another UPL. @Bjirre: If you're interested I can send you the BIOS, so you can add it to your impressive UPL archive. Yes, I know it's useless to you, as your UPL has a different mainboard, but perhaps it is useful to others.