It has been done before.
At Threshold there was a digital delay that allowed the bias to ramp up in advance of
signal, and it was not at all popular. Part of that was that the home theater 5 ch
guys objected to the delay as it messed up their timing requirements.
The other part was that this market doesn't seem to like propeller-head solutions...
I recall also the Krell "anticipation circuit" about which no information appears to
be available.
At Threshold there was a digital delay that allowed the bias to ramp up in advance of
signal, and it was not at all popular. Part of that was that the home theater 5 ch
guys objected to the delay as it messed up their timing requirements.
The other part was that this market doesn't seem to like propeller-head solutions...
I recall also the Krell "anticipation circuit" about which no information appears to
be available.
The voltage is quantized. *TIME* may not be; in older class D, the time was totally analog. Audio compared to a linear triangle wave.
Are you sure. I doubt that.
Sorry to question your knowledge? Have vou been around in the 80's? I was around 35 -36 must be 1986 - 88 or may it was almost end of the 80's. anyway it was fun to play with this stuff. and then afterwards in beginning and mid 90's one would find in almost any Keyboard, with a name these chips, but much better. But these were then no more only 8 Pins..Roland, Korg, Yamaha and many other
Check this out here this link will bring you there.
Signal processing matured and flourished in the 1960s and 1970s, and digital signal processing became widely used with specialized digital signal processor chips in the 1980s.[5]
Tell me one thing- Why should Lie to you?
What I would get in return, Nothing and BTW I already have everything I want and I need. That time we played with these IC's. 8Pin a 1 clock pin, 2 power pins, +- 1 Input 1output and 2 Caps and if I remember right 2 resistors. on the rest, and with this it was possible to create a Butterworth Second Order filter.
I have some documentation on that, but this is almost 40Years ago, and that time I lived in Asia, so I have to search for it, But I can assure you I will find it. But for the time being you can follow that link. And take an update to your knowledge. But that is up to you.
Regardshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_processing#cite_note-fifty-5
Sorry to question your knowledge? Have vou been around in the 80's? I was around 35 -36 must be 1986 - 88 or may it was almost end of the 80's. anyway it was fun to play with this stuff. and then afterwards in beginning and mid 90's one would find in almost any Keyboard, with a name these chips, but much better. But these were then no more only 8 Pins..Roland, Korg, Yamaha and many other
Check this out here this link will bring you there.
Signal processing matured and flourished in the 1960s and 1970s, and digital signal processing became widely used with specialized digital signal processor chips in the 1980s.[5]
Tell me one thing- Why should Lie to you?
What I would get in return, Nothing and BTW I already have everything I want and I need. That time we played with these IC's. 8Pin a 1 clock pin, 2 power pins, +- 1 Input 1output and 2 Caps and if I remember right 2 resistors. on the rest, and with this it was possible to create a Butterworth Second Order filter.
I have some documentation on that, but this is almost 40Years ago, and that time I lived in Asia, so I have to search for it, But I can assure you I will find it. But for the time being you can follow that link. And take an update to your knowledge. But that is up to you.
Regardshttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_processing#cite_note-fifty-5
Attachments
Thanks for you input..
It's in fact the problem that if a Sound Signal has passed or been modified in that way amplified by a PWM (and for me a PWM is more digital than analog ) is no more a Pure Sine. Anyone with good equipment might be able to trace that, at least in cheap chips.
Signal..there is the point where I do not agree..
I do not have any other concern. and There are tons of DIGITAL PWM out there.
Just this..
Thanks again
Chris
Maybe you talked about switched capacitor filter IC MFC-10 or similar? A clocked device, as were BBD (bucket brigade delays) at that time. And pure analogue, btw. Insisting on you wrong understanding of digital does not make it right either. Nor does your boasting of decades of experience. Your are not the only old fart here, me included😛
Geisterfahrer - Witz
Geisterfahrer - Witz
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@Bucks Bunny,
Happy to know
then we are two.
About that IC, It's possible that it was that MFC..
Can't tell because it's a long time back and since then many things has passed my eyes, hands etc..
Anyway no harm done..
Take care
Happy to know
then we are two.
About that IC, It's possible that it was that MFC..
Can't tell because it's a long time back and since then many things has passed my eyes, hands etc..
Anyway no harm done..
Take care
Class D has dead-time distortion, which looks an awful lot like a class B crossover distortion.
Cannot remember accusing you of lying. Which does not make the absurd claims true.
A 1980 audio DSP in an 8-pin case controlled by resistors and capacitors? In which Bond movie?
You cannot see how ridiculous this is? Yes, there were DSP chips, only those were completely unsuitable for audio thanks to 8-9 bit ADC/DAC resolutions. And they had plenty of pins as the only way to make them do anything was by programming them and they all had parallel interfaces.
If you replace 1980 with 1990 or any other year nothing much changes. Programming still required, pins still numerous, RC control still impossible.
True, but Class A is horribly inefficient and should go the way of tungsten light bulbs. The environment is more important than a tiny bit (if at all) of sound quality. Similarly, we should stop eating so much red meat, and reduce the average carbon footprint per person by 30% (a lot of this is cow farts).
Yes and no. While true in general, sophisticated class A designs can use a lot of components to tame distortion and non-linearities, and of course need huge heat sinks. So there may be less components, but they are larger, heavier, waste more energy, and as a result are more expensive to acquire and use.
Class D is not "digital" – it is a completely analog amplification process, and in the self-oscillating flavours there are not even digital components in the circuit, absolutely zero, zilch, none. So, please inform yourself.
Wrong. Class D is not Digital. There is no analog to digital to analogue conversion.
If you think you can hear something that does not exist in a Class D amplifier, then the problem is not in the amplifier.
Are you a troll? Do you realise that you have use the work "record" with two different meanings?
I stop here but I strongly recommend you to learn about RECORDING and sound REPRODUCTION, as well as about CLASS A and CLASS D.
Roberto
It is much easier to control (in good designs, not cheap chips), as you can see from distortion figures. Essentially a non-issue.
Yeah that is declared "green" 😀 If your solar panels pump energy in the grid between 12:00 and 14:00 (while demand is low) and you tell consumers the grid is a battery and that the electric heating/heatpump consumes the energy you pumped in the grid in the evening then things are AOK.
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Originally Posted by hpro View Post
There are People loving CLASS D and there are People loving CLASS A OR CLASS B, leave the decision to them, what they want to use.
Hi Roberto,
In your opinion is there a possibility that you can own a fixed bias Class A amplifier like my Krell KRS-100's or a PassLab XA-160.8 for that matter that burn away 600 Watts when idling without feeling guilty?
You know even governments in Europe buy green guarantees of origin for example from a Norwegian hydropower plant to compensate their shortage of green energy. Or large corporations plant forests to compensate for their pollution.
If I as individual use solar-energy to power and heat my insulated house, I drive a Toyota Prius instead of a gas-muzzler etc... or should those products that use Class A amplification go the way of tungsten light bulbs, as you state, never mind what.
Is the group of people (audiophiles, or what ever you want to call them) not a extremely small niche and most of them do not even possess those kind of amplifiers? So with other words is this actually a non-problem on a world-scale?
I just wanted to know if the findings of Nelson Pass regarding Class A implementation and distortion in the two quoted technical articles that are available on the PassLabs corporate website, are true for all fixed high bias push-pull amplifiers, so that you can generalize the things he says in them.
I did not intend to start a moral discussion that Class A is environmentally a bad thing, although your entitled by the 1st Amendment to say what you want to say of course.
There are People loving CLASS D and there are People loving CLASS A OR CLASS B, leave the decision to them, what they want to use.
Hi Roberto,
In your opinion is there a possibility that you can own a fixed bias Class A amplifier like my Krell KRS-100's or a PassLab XA-160.8 for that matter that burn away 600 Watts when idling without feeling guilty?
You know even governments in Europe buy green guarantees of origin for example from a Norwegian hydropower plant to compensate their shortage of green energy. Or large corporations plant forests to compensate for their pollution.
If I as individual use solar-energy to power and heat my insulated house, I drive a Toyota Prius instead of a gas-muzzler etc... or should those products that use Class A amplification go the way of tungsten light bulbs, as you state, never mind what.
Is the group of people (audiophiles, or what ever you want to call them) not a extremely small niche and most of them do not even possess those kind of amplifiers? So with other words is this actually a non-problem on a world-scale?
I just wanted to know if the findings of Nelson Pass regarding Class A implementation and distortion in the two quoted technical articles that are available on the PassLabs corporate website, are true for all fixed high bias push-pull amplifiers, so that you can generalize the things he says in them.
I did not intend to start a moral discussion that Class A is environmentally a bad thing, although your entitled by the 1st Amendment to say what you want to say of course.
This IS actually a non-problem on a world-scale but the thread title is "Class A in itself benificial?" so a question (although it more seems wanting a confirmation 🙂). Some readers might take this broadly as the posed question suggests (beneficial to who? Beneficial to what exactly?) and may describe some things not so beneficial of class A as a reply to the question.
"Why I believe Class A is beneficial" as thread title would have avoided that. I tried it equally evangelical with my beloved Diesel cars and was equally successful 😉
"Why I believe Class A is beneficial" as thread title would have avoided that. I tried it equally evangelical with my beloved Diesel cars and was equally successful 😉
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Too many American movies 🙂
Every time you turn those lovely Krells on god kills a kitten. Or a polar bear cub 😛
Collins English Dictionary:It has been done before.
At Threshold there was a digital delay that allowed the bias to ramp up in advance of
signal, and it was not at all popular. Part of that was that the home theater 5 ch
guys objected to the delay as it messed up their timing requirements.
The other part was that this market doesn't seem to like propeller-head solutions...
I recall also the Krell "anticipation circuit" about which no information appears to
be available.
Propellerhead: person who is obsessively devoted to an esp. technical pursuit
So if the market was really good for propeller-head solutions like your own active bias circuit patent, would you haven abandoned the fixed high bias Class A technology and invested more in variable biasing scheme to reduce the "waisted" energy portion, as is stated by a lot of contributions in this thread?
Okay accepted. Maybe my question was too ambiguous but the rest of the content, apart from that title, wasn't I think.
Do you believe Diesels are beneficial? 😉
Yup. Blame Zappa for this. Sometimes i wonder how would he have fared in our current woke state. Perhaps not too well.
As for the question posed in this thread... there is no straightforward answer, even if sound quality is the only concern.
The presentation of the classic monstrous class A amps is really impressive in many ways but seldom has anyone called the sound "fast". Perhaps unimportant for some genres, yet vital for others.
There are so many other considerations when choosing an amp that the class is usually way down my list.
As for practicality...an amp dissipating a kW or even less makes it essential to listen with the aircon on. After a while it becomes tiresome.
