OK, my $.02
My home is fairly modest. My electricity usage is generally less than 1000kWh/mo even in summer with air conditioning. Never close to that in the winter with 2/3 of my tri-amp being class A (XA30.5 & XA60.5) and the woofers X260.5.
I can count on the fingers of 1 hand how many people have seen/heard this stereo, none know what it cost, and I've not posted about it here before so I'm not "showing off my wealth".
I switch amps in the summer, just like I don't run the oven in the kitchen in summer but cook on the outdoor grill.
My daily commute is less than 10 miles, 2500 miles total last year.
Not everyone running class A amps is doing so to destroy the planet or "show off their wealth".
My energy usage is likely far less than somebody living in a large house running class D amps, but I don't take it upon myself to tell them what size house they should live in.
I have JBL Synchros E50 BT for same purpose ..... pretty much same dissipation as Nap, but better sounding 
never using them
even forgot ones at Pa's
never using them
even forgot ones at Pa's
The narrative in those articles is purposefully written to encourage the market towards accepting highly biased class AB amplifiers. One of the arguments is that the first watt is the most important and that people may prefer class AB at high power levels. The Aleph series amplifiers were not highly dynamic with low impedance loudspeakers but they were well accepted in the 90’s when lush was on trend.
Your Kell is more closely aligned to the Pass AX160 which is fully biased into class A. The thinking is deeper class A bias is ultimately better. Of course the high bias AB amps out sell the AX as they appeal to 99.95 % of Americans who aren’t rich capitalists.
The issue is that the high bias high power AB amps still dissipate a lot of heat due to the higher dc supply rails. Maybe Pass will come out with a new sliding bias amplifier when the authorities rule out inefficient consumer audio components which is not too far around the corner.
The smart way of avoiding this problem is to Triamp your loudspeaker with small low powered fully biased class A amps on the mid range and the tweeter. 10 -20 watts is more than enough for domestic situation.
The HIFi mafia does not like that because it’s a disrupter to the otherwise relentless desire of the audiophile to subscribe to Stereophile who then upgrade to a better more powerful amplifier.
There are a number of nice diy class A amps like the Aleph J, JLH and the Aleph X to name a few.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jean-paul
Energy is the one thing that one can not miss even in a crisis like the one we are now in. One can resign from magazines and newspapers, sell the car and go by bicycle, don't order take away food and cook oneself, stop going out... but a warm house, hot water and light are essential. With only rising prices energy will be key in the near future. Audio is a dying market and what is sold to the general public are already higher efficiency speakers and class D stuff (even in cars). The part of audio in total energy consumption in normal households is very low as many don't even have audio anymore (yes, horror!) and other household devices use way more energy. Many are conscious about energy use and try to waste less water and energy so I think your statement is odd.
You mention high power amplifiers but those are either class D or AB with low idle power consumption in general. Ready built Class A straight from the store is a true niche market for people with bigger pockets that often don't hesitate to show off their wealth (which is OK) but it is only a very small part of the total. A gentleman in this thread told us he spent 2600 Euro per 6 months to have his class A amplifier powered on continuously but I somehow suspect not many normal citizens will do so as they have trouble enough to survive the month.
You see here is some wrong information, where the poster in the quote above,( by jean-paul ) mentioned about my Electricity bill.
So, he just pulled a part which is useful for him in the one or other way and placed this, I think he wouldn't have to write any other thing. So it's OK. with me, Again this typing he pulled out of the REAL CONTEXT, because I was actually complaining about that bill..
Read it and then you know
Class A in itself benificial?
And in the beginning and before of this these Posts, I wrote about to find a way to reduce Power consumption of my DIY Class A, to a lower state.
But this he didn't write, because then his Sentence before wouldn't match the case. There are many like that and I just leave them alone.
"Quote myself: But switching the AMP on and off is no Option, End Quote",
And if you read all then you will see what I meant. This is far away from having the amp switched on all the time for the month or the six months.
It is meant, that if I leave the room where the amp plays the music, the amp will be left powered on.!
But if I go to work, at my own business to earn money or go to sleep because I'm weary and tired from working, so that I can pay my bills, then I will switch all my AMPS OFF.
But as you see Reading and Understanding what someone reads, is two kind of knowledge. And those who have a hard time over the month, they need to ask them self, if they do something wrong or doing not enough for them self. We in Swiss have a saying and this is: If you make your bed well, then you also will sleep good.
And just besides that, I'm not a wealthy man, would I be, then I would not work anymore with almost 69 years of age..But I love it to work, and love it to work at my business and after that on these DIY AMPS.
So actually, I use my oven in summer time, I want to listen to my AMP anytime I feel like. But, I do not ask anyone to pay my bills.
I work to pay them. From Nothing comes Nothing, and I do something, and a lot I can assure.
But I'm going to cut down on that excessive POWER ELECTRICITY USE because it's my Money I burn away with not shutting down the amp when leaving the room. So make that Automatic!
Right now I'm working on a Circuit, which will not shut off the amp while on idle, but (I'm talking about my amps.) but force the amp to just consume a 10th of the current it takes as when the amp is in duty, meaning using it to listen to the music.
This Circuit will also be useful for all who do not like to switch off the amplifier each and every time when they leave the room for a few minutes or so., My amps or at least one is running per day for 6 - 8 hours. Continued but not for one or six month. But besides that I also have several Office Computers, two HP DL380 - G6 and G8 Server. Servers running, also on a timely basis. Besides that Electricity in Swiss is not cheap..
Parts are ordered, and all this circuit which can be adapted to any amp, will cost under 100USD to DIY. there will be no modification needed on the AMPLIFIER one is using. It can be used like plug and Play.
Following featured it will have.
Switch Power either off or cut power down after a SET TIME has been set, how long it will take until power is reduced or cut when no Output or Input signal or both is detected. Saying when the Amp is just burning power away while IDLE then a TIMER will start and after one or two minutes or as much the user likes is set to activate Power reduction or cut on that amp.
But bringing the power to full power instantly up again, when input signal is applied!
Also if someone want's to keep a certain heat on the heat sinks, like me, I think best sound is at about 60 degrees, this also can be adjusted. So input power of the AMP will be adjusted automatically. So, that's my part to this thread here.
And Yes Class A in itself is beneficial, !
This was the context Jean-Paul pulled out that Gentlemen line.,
No problem for me, but all this I explained once already.
Has nothing to do with bragging of wealth or likewise, and I see you have read at least that part and understood. unfortunately others don't.
Happy EASTER ALL
Thank you it's a fantastic Form
Regards
Chris Hess,
not a wealthy man.!
Originally Posted by jean-paul
Energy is the one thing that one can not miss even in a crisis like the one we are now in. One can resign from magazines and newspapers, sell the car and go by bicycle, don't order take away food and cook oneself, stop going out... but a warm house, hot water and light are essential. With only rising prices energy will be key in the near future. Audio is a dying market and what is sold to the general public are already higher efficiency speakers and class D stuff (even in cars). The part of audio in total energy consumption in normal households is very low as many don't even have audio anymore (yes, horror!) and other household devices use way more energy. Many are conscious about energy use and try to waste less water and energy so I think your statement is odd.
You mention high power amplifiers but those are either class D or AB with low idle power consumption in general. Ready built Class A straight from the store is a true niche market for people with bigger pockets that often don't hesitate to show off their wealth (which is OK) but it is only a very small part of the total. A gentleman in this thread told us he spent 2600 Euro per 6 months to have his class A amplifier powered on continuously but I somehow suspect not many normal citizens will do so as they have trouble enough to survive the month.
You see here is some wrong information, where the poster in the quote above,( by jean-paul ) mentioned about my Electricity bill.
So, he just pulled a part which is useful for him in the one or other way and placed this, I think he wouldn't have to write any other thing. So it's OK. with me, Again this typing he pulled out of the REAL CONTEXT, because I was actually complaining about that bill..
Read it and then you know
Class A in itself benificial?
And in the beginning and before of this these Posts, I wrote about to find a way to reduce Power consumption of my DIY Class A, to a lower state.
But this he didn't write, because then his Sentence before wouldn't match the case. There are many like that and I just leave them alone.
"Quote myself: But switching the AMP on and off is no Option, End Quote",
And if you read all then you will see what I meant. This is far away from having the amp switched on all the time for the month or the six months.
It is meant, that if I leave the room where the amp plays the music, the amp will be left powered on.!
But if I go to work, at my own business to earn money or go to sleep because I'm weary and tired from working, so that I can pay my bills, then I will switch all my AMPS OFF.
But as you see Reading and Understanding what someone reads, is two kind of knowledge. And those who have a hard time over the month, they need to ask them self, if they do something wrong or doing not enough for them self. We in Swiss have a saying and this is: If you make your bed well, then you also will sleep good.
And just besides that, I'm not a wealthy man, would I be, then I would not work anymore with almost 69 years of age..But I love it to work, and love it to work at my business and after that on these DIY AMPS.
So actually, I use my oven in summer time, I want to listen to my AMP anytime I feel like. But, I do not ask anyone to pay my bills.
I work to pay them. From Nothing comes Nothing, and I do something, and a lot I can assure.
But I'm going to cut down on that excessive POWER ELECTRICITY USE because it's my Money I burn away with not shutting down the amp when leaving the room. So make that Automatic!
Right now I'm working on a Circuit, which will not shut off the amp while on idle, but (I'm talking about my amps.) but force the amp to just consume a 10th of the current it takes as when the amp is in duty, meaning using it to listen to the music.
This Circuit will also be useful for all who do not like to switch off the amplifier each and every time when they leave the room for a few minutes or so., My amps or at least one is running per day for 6 - 8 hours. Continued but not for one or six month. But besides that I also have several Office Computers, two HP DL380 - G6 and G8 Server. Servers running, also on a timely basis. Besides that Electricity in Swiss is not cheap..
Parts are ordered, and all this circuit which can be adapted to any amp, will cost under 100USD to DIY. there will be no modification needed on the AMPLIFIER one is using. It can be used like plug and Play.
Following featured it will have.
Switch Power either off or cut power down after a SET TIME has been set, how long it will take until power is reduced or cut when no Output or Input signal or both is detected. Saying when the Amp is just burning power away while IDLE then a TIMER will start and after one or two minutes or as much the user likes is set to activate Power reduction or cut on that amp.
But bringing the power to full power instantly up again, when input signal is applied!
Also if someone want's to keep a certain heat on the heat sinks, like me, I think best sound is at about 60 degrees, this also can be adjusted. So input power of the AMP will be adjusted automatically. So, that's my part to this thread here.
And Yes Class A in itself is beneficial, !
This was the context Jean-Paul pulled out that Gentlemen line.,
No problem for me, but all this I explained once already.
Has nothing to do with bragging of wealth or likewise, and I see you have read at least that part and understood. unfortunately others don't.
Happy EASTER ALL
Thank you it's a fantastic Form
Regards
Chris Hess,
not a wealthy man.!
Last edited:
For clarity, I meant to say that in this classification, the transmisson techniques should be named "continuous" (rather than analog) and "discrete" (discontinuous, digital, switching).
¤
It has never been easier to achieve high efficiency, but you need to have a nerve of steel to withstand the sonic impact of low heat.
¤
It has never been easier to achieve high efficiency, but you need to have a nerve of steel to withstand the sonic impact of low heat.
What is the purpose of the sliding bias? A higher amplitude naturally brings about a higher current, activating a switching action at an insufficient amount of available current in the dynamic regime.
nope
they're all venerable, ancient relics, no good
send them all to OPLDF, for proper disposal
Yeah, that's where those big Class A amps are gonna wind up anyway just like the German V8 and V12 cruisers.
The purpose would be to keep the "unused" semis in the linear region
by providing a continuously forward bias.
I always thought that the purpose of all the sliding bias schemes was to avoid continuously forward bias for efficiency reasons:
"It is an object of the present invention to build an efficient amplifier using Class AB emitter follower complementary output stages, but eliminating cross-over distortion by operating the circuit in a Class A mode over the entire current and voltage output swing."
Source: United States Patent and Trademark Office: Patentno.: 3,995,228
Or don't I get it (which is usually the case) and is continuously forward bias a necessary ingredient for this sliding bias scheme in the patent?
All these hobbyists decrying issues that cover energy efficiency, electricity, carbon footprint of fuels in cars, and what not.
Great. You want to save the planet (most of us do), but in the end It is still just a hobby.
Hobbies help reduce and get rid of boredom. Diyaudio here gives us something to do when you find yourself with nothing absolutely nothing to fill your time. I don't decry when someone takes up video games using easily 750 watts in their self built pc battle station (750 watts is average for a new mid-range 30xx series card, memory, and current gen ultra fast overclocked CPU). That hobby like ours here keeps them from mentally breaking down. Same with books and knitting. I am not going to leave my amps plugged in 24/7/365 because that would be bad. I do actively advocate the adoption of renewable energy to politicians who rarely listen.
Hobbies also give you an activity that you can look forward to and get excited about or why else would we be building these boxes to make sound? Paperweights are cheaper, but somewhat less interesting.
Hobbies help you develop new skills. I started repairing 70's silver face amplifiers not knowing what the heck I was exactly doing (a hobby indeed). Then people paying me to fix their amps -- you can make money from this stuff all by reading a schematic? Damn. That lead to vaccum tube amps getting repaired (B+ of 350VDC!). That lead to building tube amps of different topologies. And then SS class A, ChipAmps, headphone amps, a speaker or two made of foam core paper and tiny 4 inch speakers that were mind blowing. Suddenly my hobby is instead looking like I am collecting tubes, sockets, resistors, capacitors, PCBs, and transistors in a junk bin. And I don't regret it for a minute.
A lot of hobbies are solitary endeavors, many get us out in our communities (outside or on-line), meeting people we otherwise wouldn’t, sharing our passions, and forming new bonds.
But most of all, hobbies help with coping with stress. I rather be spending my money on this hobby and a few electricity bills because the alternative would be spending it on hookers and cocaine... while on a cruise ship... after having flown all over the world.
SS class A and SE tube just sounds nicer to me and I can build them from discrete components. I can't build an ICEPower amp without the whole premade drop in modules and even then it still feels like arriving at the finish line in a car while everyone else was on foot. Not for me, but it may be some else's version of hookers and cocaine.
Great. You want to save the planet (most of us do), but in the end It is still just a hobby.
Hobbies help reduce and get rid of boredom. Diyaudio here gives us something to do when you find yourself with nothing absolutely nothing to fill your time. I don't decry when someone takes up video games using easily 750 watts in their self built pc battle station (750 watts is average for a new mid-range 30xx series card, memory, and current gen ultra fast overclocked CPU). That hobby like ours here keeps them from mentally breaking down. Same with books and knitting. I am not going to leave my amps plugged in 24/7/365 because that would be bad. I do actively advocate the adoption of renewable energy to politicians who rarely listen.
Hobbies also give you an activity that you can look forward to and get excited about or why else would we be building these boxes to make sound? Paperweights are cheaper, but somewhat less interesting.
Hobbies help you develop new skills. I started repairing 70's silver face amplifiers not knowing what the heck I was exactly doing (a hobby indeed). Then people paying me to fix their amps -- you can make money from this stuff all by reading a schematic? Damn. That lead to vaccum tube amps getting repaired (B+ of 350VDC!). That lead to building tube amps of different topologies. And then SS class A, ChipAmps, headphone amps, a speaker or two made of foam core paper and tiny 4 inch speakers that were mind blowing. Suddenly my hobby is instead looking like I am collecting tubes, sockets, resistors, capacitors, PCBs, and transistors in a junk bin. And I don't regret it for a minute.
A lot of hobbies are solitary endeavors, many get us out in our communities (outside or on-line), meeting people we otherwise wouldn’t, sharing our passions, and forming new bonds.
But most of all, hobbies help with coping with stress. I rather be spending my money on this hobby and a few electricity bills because the alternative would be spending it on hookers and cocaine... while on a cruise ship... after having flown all over the world.
SS class A and SE tube just sounds nicer to me and I can build them from discrete components. I can't build an ICEPower amp without the whole premade drop in modules and even then it still feels like arriving at the finish line in a car while everyone else was on foot. Not for me, but it may be some else's version of hookers and cocaine.
Sorry, I am late to this thread, but:
Are you referring to cars or amps?
Car: 1 L of fuel is equivalent to about 2.3 kg of CO2 emission.
Amp: 1 kWh is equivalent to about 0.4 kg of CO2.
Question: how much fuel do you use for your car, and how much electricity do you use for your amp?
Driving an "average" car for an hour will produce roughly 20 kg of CO2. Listening to a typical 2 x 25 W FirstWatt class A amp for an hour is equivalent to about 0.5% of the CO2 from the car.
I don't have/use a car, so I can use my class A amps 200 x longer than many of you! 😛
Are you referring to cars or amps?
Car: 1 L of fuel is equivalent to about 2.3 kg of CO2 emission.
Amp: 1 kWh is equivalent to about 0.4 kg of CO2.
Question: how much fuel do you use for your car, and how much electricity do you use for your amp?
Driving an "average" car for an hour will produce roughly 20 kg of CO2. Listening to a typical 2 x 25 W FirstWatt class A amp for an hour is equivalent to about 0.5% of the CO2 from the car.
I don't have/use a car, so I can use my class A amps 200 x longer than many of you! 😛
Yes that part is clear to me. It is the adding of the word 'continuously':
"The purpose would be to keep the "unused" semis in the linear region
by providing a continuously forward bias."
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Well my amps are 2 x 180 Watts Class A and consume 1300 Watts per hour and the bigger PassLabs are also having those kind of AC intake.
I'm not upset about that but some are and they're entitled to their opinion of course.
I'm either drive my Serie's 5 BMW or listening to my Class A at home, can't do both at the same time, as the class A is to heavy to take with me each time..
Just joking.
@ RobertS61
And wait now all will come and "what why and stuff like & that" but then those ones, going and buying Tesla, where they use according to Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD 20.9Kwh.
I'm aware the factory data is less, but I haven't seen one test where they matched these 16KWH.
And this is for 100Kmh, so 16'000:1300 = 12 Times as much as your amp..
So, just use your amp.. and this is of course for just 1 Hour driving. So you have 11 hours good,.
I do not intend to accuse anyone here, nor do I intend to offend anyone,
but as it happens in Swiss that the GREEN ONES are PRAYING Water but drinking WINE instead, when no one sees it, not all of them but many, it's just in each ones responsibility to give the BEST to save energy and also our earth, as much as one can.
And we do not want to talk about how much CO2 is generated for making these batteries for E- CARS, never mind the BRAND. The numbers anyone can look up on google with the right search string.
How about one pound nice steak?
It produces 15 pound CO2 and plus transportation, slaughtering, storing, aging, cooking, eating at a well heated or air-conditioned restaurant.
It produces 15 pound CO2 and plus transportation, slaughtering, storing, aging, cooking, eating at a well heated or air-conditioned restaurant.
I do use them and I don't feel guilty about it really...
And I have a 5 Series too (E39) because it drives so fine.
I did not start this thread to discuss the legitimacy of using amps wit a high quiescent current running trough them, but I was interested if the benefits discussed by NP regarding the use of high biased amplifiers was a generic phenomena not solely limited to his designs.
I gathered from the answers that all other factors excluded, Class A enrichment is a good thing for letting amplifiers behave linear and having a low distortion so that's there no need to clean up the audio signal afterwards with lots of feedback which introduces distortion itself.
And I have a 5 Series too (E39) because it drives so fine.
I did not start this thread to discuss the legitimacy of using amps wit a high quiescent current running trough them, but I was interested if the benefits discussed by NP regarding the use of high biased amplifiers was a generic phenomena not solely limited to his designs.
I gathered from the answers that all other factors excluded, Class A enrichment is a good thing for letting amplifiers behave linear and having a low distortion so that's there no need to clean up the audio signal afterwards with lots of feedback which introduces distortion itself.
