Yes, wired in series with shunt cap on one of them. Stand mounters. I've enjoyed making/listening to my current speakers and dabbling with passive xovers but they are big and not easy to move or interchange. I want to be able to swap various speakers around, try out different designs etc. I've got a small growing collection, Fostex103EN, Pluvia 7, Alpair 5.2, and of course 7MS plus some older mid-woofers and tweeters. So I'll be relying on subwoofer/s support going forward.
These caught my eye SB Acoustics SB23MFCL45-4 8" Polypropylene cone Subwoofer Surprisingly small enclosures required (11 litre sealed 0.707).
The other night I connected the 7MS direct to the amplifier and used my sub instead of the 8 inchers. Although the mid bass was a bit lean due to the short mid transmission line enclosures of the Mark Audios the overall sound was well detailed and imaging improved which is what full range sound is all about. IMHO.
Sounds like you have a nice collection going there. That sub looks to be good in a small size and I really like the look. I also came across the Dayton RSS210HO-8 sub today which does -6db at 39hz in 8.8 litres if I wrote the specs in correctly that is. Which is insanely small obviously. It seems to have good extension too, I'd still cross it low ofc. My only concern with subs is distortion in the higher frequencies and how detailed they will be. I also came across the Dayton ES180TiA-8 which is a 180mm (I'm guessing by the name and not checking the specs) midwoofer which does -6db at 45 Hz in just under 10 litres
I find alone the 7ms bass seems a bit distorted, probably because I'm turning them up more than I should so I can't really use it for my music on its own. I'm sure a sub would help massively but I want to make a more flexible speaker.
Perhaps you can consider making a couple of small bass modules with one of these drivers mentioned and cross low at say 120hz? Then you can just use them with any FR cab on top
Those 7ms look great, I really like the silver colour. Mine are the coppery colour, I bought them used from someone here. I think I'm a bit jealous
With the 2 7MS in series they will share the bass duties but one of them will still play the full range but reduced but not cut-off bass. For the same spl the units will move a 1/4 of their displacement i.e. the approx. 4mm linear range of the cones would only require 1mm when there are 2 of them which should reduce distortion.
The 7MS sealed alignment (12dB/octave) gives a -6dB of around 70Hz so the subwoofers would ideally have 12dB slope filters with -6dB at 70 Hz and wired out of phase compared to the full range. I was thinking of having 2 small subs that could also be used for stands for the speakers on top.
The 7MS sealed alignment (12dB/octave) gives a -6dB of around 70Hz so the subwoofers would ideally have 12dB slope filters with -6dB at 70 Hz and wired out of phase compared to the full range. I was thinking of having 2 small subs that could also be used for stands for the speakers on top.
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I see, that should work well. When I was experimenting with mine and had them sloped off at about 80hz they were playing reasonably loud. Combine two of those with a sub and you should be able to achieve a lot.
I like the two sub idea, that's what I meant with the bass modules. Then you'd have a super flexible system. Make sure to keep us updated
I like the two sub idea, that's what I meant with the bass modules. Then you'd have a super flexible system. Make sure to keep us updated
Don't hold your breath, I'm a bit slow with my projects.
I'll have to reinstate my Q Acoustics while I build some test boxes perhaps.
One idea (not original) is to have a Castle arrangement but wired in series not parallel. I.e. a bi-pole but with an up-firing drive unit instead of it being on the back, avoids the bi-pole dip. The main advantage of a bi-pole is baffle step compensation with no filter components. The 7MS have baffle step built in so wiring in series just gives the benefits mentioned earlier i.e. shared bass duties. This arrangement would negate the need of the shunt capacitor. The up-firing unit would maybe also add some ambience to the sound and could be adjusted by adding some thick cover material (keeps dust off too).
Sorry I'm hijacking your thread with my own design thoughts.😉
Haha, I don't think mine will be done any time soon to be honest. As well as work I study part time. I may also be moving home soon so a lot to do. Also why I'm trying to budget on the woofers, but it's hard to find exactly what I want on a low budget I've realised.
I like the idea of a castle speaker, I was thinking of doing that as I thought it'd go really nicely in a living room. I sometimes find a very focussed sound from speakers distracting so I'm sure that would help sit back and just enjoy the music rather than thinking about how good it sounds
I like the idea of a castle speaker, I was thinking of doing that as I thought it'd go really nicely in a living room. I sometimes find a very focussed sound from speakers distracting so I'm sure that would help sit back and just enjoy the music rather than thinking about how good it sounds
Since the W14 goes into an ML-TL scott is the final decider.
Here is the basic TL (just updated), and the W14.
http://wodendesign.com/downloads/Simple-SF-W14-MLTL-050221.pdf
Silver Flute W14RC25-04 ohm 5-1/2" Wool Cone
I guess they have too many 16Ω ones: Silver Flute W14RC25-16 5.5" Woofer Wool Cone Woofer - 16 ohm
Use 2 ($64 US + 2x as much post [guess]) or 3 per side. Seriously good value at least if you don’t have to pay shipping.
dave
you have followed the microTower threads, lots of Castle impressions there. I have a pair downstairs :^)
dave
I think I quite like the look of the Dayton es180tia, any opinion on this, Dave? It's quite pricey but fits into only 10l so if I were to ever upsize my speaker I can look at doubling up. I've not had much a look at other drivers of this size yet but as far as I know Dayton usually offer good value
https://daytonaudio.com/images/reso...s-180tia-8-esoteric-series-specifications.pdf
https://daytonaudio.com/images/reso...s-180tia-8-esoteric-series-specifications.pdf
I'm not Dave, but it's a very solid driver in the 7in price bracket, albeit arguably not quite as good as the original version. They fixed an issue with the first version of this unit but the cure was for some arguably worse than the problem. Dayton are PE's house brand so they can be a bit expensive in the UK at present.
Hi, Scott. Thanks for responding. What was the issue they fixed? You're definitely right about the pricing compared to PE which I haven't realised before. At full price on PE they're about £130 but they're on sale atm, and I assume they often are, so they're only £94 each. The cheapest I have found is £120 each in the UK. It's hard to find a woofer for the job because I need quite a specific size and not many opinions or measurements for all drivers
I can have a look at the Dayton. I do have some moral/business model issues with PE’s housebrand, and try to avoid them.
That price is awefully close to an Alpair 12pw from Kent. A superb midWoofer and underappreciated. It would be a no-brainer for me.
Alpair 12PW full range driver | KJF Audio
From about a 15 litre reflex (up to about 40) and brings about 25 Hz (F10) in Wodens big ML-TL.
The twin design costs money, but the basic MLTL is published free.
http://wodendesign.com/downloads/A12pw-folded-ml-tl-extents.pdf
http://wodendesign.com/downloads/Woden-A12pw-MLTL-plan.pdf
Looks like i have yet to publish the free for use 35 litre CGR for these.
dave
That price is awefully close to an Alpair 12pw from Kent. A superb midWoofer and underappreciated. It would be a no-brainer for me.
Alpair 12PW full range driver | KJF Audio
From about a 15 litre reflex (up to about 40) and brings about 25 Hz (F10) in Wodens big ML-TL.
The twin design costs money, but the basic MLTL is published free.
http://wodendesign.com/downloads/A12pw-folded-ml-tl-extents.pdf
http://wodendesign.com/downloads/Woden-A12pw-MLTL-plan.pdf
Looks like i have yet to publish the free for use 35 litre CGR for these.
dave
Re the ES180TiA, I suppose 'characteristic' rather than issue per se. The first version had a breakup mode relatively low down that made it difficult to use for less experienced designers. Addressed by the simple expedient of putting some damping material under the dustcap (you can see it through the weave). Unfortunately, it lowered the Q of the breakup modes, which wasn't ideal and if you've a thing for piston operation with medium sized woofers (as I have, when you have woofers with technical features that lean that way), limits its usable BW. If you're not using them above a few hundred Hz, you should be fine.
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I see. I appreciate the 12pw is probably an excellent woofer but I don't think it fits into a very small sealed enlcosure. If I had more space for a vented box it would be something I would consider though. I've realised it's actually pretty hard to find a woofer for what I need, I do have a sealed sub to take over the low end if needed but I wanted something that can work well without a sub.
I see, thanks for that, Scott. I don't plan on using it more than around 400hz but I do prefer a driver that is quite flexible. If you know of anything else that works in a small sealed enclosure, please let me know. I have already spent many hours looking through different drivers, it's proving to be very time consuming 😴
Drivers for sealed enclosures are rare 15-20 litres is not that large.
A12pw sealed 20 litres does 40 Hz F10, low 50s F6. And doesn’t start runnign out of steam until about 10k, is very well behaved, and sounds very good.
Hmm… surprisingly the reflex only reaches 5 Hz or so lower, but with a quicker rolloff. Which suggests that if one damps the vent, you end up in between. And that can be done after the fact. Crank up th edamping density and one approachs sealed so a bit of tuning capability for the room.
dave
A12pw sealed 20 litres does 40 Hz F10, low 50s F6. And doesn’t start runnign out of steam until about 10k, is very well behaved, and sounds very good.
Hmm… surprisingly the reflex only reaches 5 Hz or so lower, but with a quicker rolloff. Which suggests that if one damps the vent, you end up in between. And that can be done after the fact. Crank up th edamping density and one approachs sealed so a bit of tuning capability for the room.
dave
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I do wonder how it'll sound, I haven't seen anyone using a 12pw sealed before. I haven't seen many reports in general about it. I would use it in about 20 litres sealed because that would probably be easiest for me to do. I know 20 litres isn't that big, but because the shallow enclosure the proportions suddenly get quite big. And I need about 9 litres for 7ms on top. The 12pw does look like a very well made driver though.
One thing I noticed is that Mark says something about it being for an "audiophile low frequency load" and I have no idea what that really means. I would use it for all types of music, including hip hop and I wouldn't want to be worried about stressing it. I imagine it would be fine for a few mm excursion constantly if it has an 8.5mm one way xmax but unfortunately Mark hasn't made it very clear
I have always liked the idea of using the 12pw so it's definitely something to consider
One thing I noticed is that Mark says something about it being for an "audiophile low frequency load" and I have no idea what that really means. I would use it for all types of music, including hip hop and I wouldn't want to be worried about stressing it. I imagine it would be fine for a few mm excursion constantly if it has an 8.5mm one way xmax but unfortunately Mark hasn't made it very clear
I have always liked the idea of using the 12pw so it's definitely something to consider
The A12pw is underappreciatted and while out now for many years ago, but it just starting to gain traction. So people with real worls experience are scarce.
All of the MA drivers now have an arrestor which gives an audiable indication of when you have turned it up to loud. The MAs stand out wrt most other FR (or near FRs) in terms of their volume displacement (ie iMax).
A12pw is smooth, the highly smoother FR curve for the Dayton shows some number of 5ish dB peaks, not a big issue in a WAW. And one wants a bass driver that meshes well with what is up top.
dave
All of the MA drivers now have an arrestor which gives an audiable indication of when you have turned it up to loud. The MAs stand out wrt most other FR (or near FRs) in terms of their volume displacement (ie iMax).
A12pw is smooth, the highly smoother FR curve for the Dayton shows some number of 5ish dB peaks, not a big issue in a WAW. And one wants a bass driver that meshes well with what is up top.
dave
Re his remarks, Mark simply meant that the 12PW is not a subwoofer with a heavy-gauge coil and suspension, and should not be treated like one. The high excursion is intended to give capacity for LF dynamic peaks when listening at a modest average SPL, rather than being driven to the limit on a constant basis. To be honest, it's not much different in that regard to some other paper cone midbass drivers, or vintage models for that matter. It's a nice driver, deserves to sell better than it does.