Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FDs

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#4,081
Hello all, I'm interested in building a set of Karlsonator style cabinets. I was wondering about recommended drivers in the 6-12" range and cabinet designs to match. Dual 6" drivers?

Madisound has the FE208NS, and FE168NS on sale and I was wondering if either would work well in this type of enclosure? Or are there better options available, at a similar or cheaper price?

Thanks,
ndp
 
#4,082
This Diatone clone is a very nice sounding 6.5" loudspeaker. And cheap, too.

I don't know if it's suitable for Karlsonator, maybe XRK can make a simulation


MeloDavid HiEND altavoz fullrange P610, 6,5 pulgadas, MK3, 2021Ver, 1 par|speaker speaker|speakers p610diatone speaker - AliExpress


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#4,087
Thank you X, I have made 0.46 scale using tc9fds and was pleased with it, and a friend has changed the drivers with Faitals and it was bit better than Vifas but I wandered if I put Faitals in 0.53 scaled box I could get little bit more voluminous bass.
That's the reason why I asked here if someone have experimented with Faitals more than I did....
 
#4,088
This past weekend I listened to a friend's (diyAudio member Twocents) new TABAQ speakers with Faital 4FE32 drivers. The bass is really VERY GOOD. No need for a sub. The TABAQ's have much more bass than my dual 3FE25-16 Karlsonators. There is just no comparison bass-wise, but high freq is too bright. He had to use BSC to tame the highs. Shoot him a PM if you have questions: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/members/twocents.html

I like my Karsonators for other reasons, though. The soundstage is just incredible and I believe no other speaker design comes close if soundstage and imaging is your thing.

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#4,089
What I sometimes miss with my Karlsonators is a bigger sound. I.o.w. more SPL. It's great that the FaitalPRO full range drivers are available in 16 Ohm. I wonder if dual 4FE32-16 in parallel in a larger scale cabinet would work well. It would still need a sub I think, but I'm OK with that.
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#4,090
The Tabaq is no doubt a great sounding speaker and has the advantage of a long MLTL. I made one with a 3in Peerless driver once and recall pretty deep bass in the 50Hz range. The SPL was moderarate though and you needed a lot of attenuation of the highs to balance with the bass. In the end, it made the speaker maybe -5dB less sensitive from the BSC. The Karlsonator, on the other hand, has no BSC circuit so the bass you get, although not as deep is as sensitive as the drivers permit. For the case of dual 3FE25-16's, it is 93dB at 2.83v. If one has a 4ohm capable amp, then dual 3FE25-8's would be 96dB at 2.83v.

I would have to run a simulation for the dual 4FE32-16's to see how it looks.

The 4FE32-16 is a more powerful Nd motor and hence Vas is lower. A dual 4FE32-16 requires a smaller cabinet scaled at 0.47x overall to produce a smooth response. -3dB is only 61Hz and sensitivity appears to be 85.7dB at 2.83v when wired in parallel.

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With 0.53x scale, there is a bass overshoot from a too-large of a cabinet:
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#4,091
Hi Vitorio,
The P610 has a very soft suspension and large Vas - so requires a large cabinet to reach its full bass extension. It can work in a rather large Karlsonator and even at 0.70x scale, the -3dB is around 67Hz. The response is very smooth though and more like a "PA" response with 95dB sensitivity at 2.83v. It might be very good if assisted with a sub.

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#4,093
xrk971 said:
I would have to run a simulation for the dual 4FE32-16's to see how it looks.

The 4FE32-16 is a more powerful Nd motor and hence Vas is lower. A dual 4FE32-16 requires a smaller cabinet scaled at 0.47x overall to produce a smooth response. -3dB is only 61Hz and sensitivity appears to be 85.7dB at 2.83v when wired in parallel.

With 0.53x scale, there is a bass overshoot from a too-large of a cabinet:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the simulations, X. 85.7dB is a bit of a let down. It's maybe suitable for a powerful amp, but will not work with my ACA. Would a 25W Pass amp be powerful enough?
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#4,096
hey victorio. - here's why I think a stock Karlsonator 6 would work

The original Karlsonator 6 prototype was a bit less in depth than the plan as my friend only had so much scrap plywood.

L Cao F6 has a smaller Vas spec than your 610 - but a weaker motor.
 

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#4,097
For a single cone, L Cao F6 has the smoothest most extended treble response I've seen. Subjectively, with slapped acoustic upright bass, the attack wasn't as sharp as that of an old de-whizzed Fostex FE164 with stronger motor. But mids and treble were very nice and there was impressive sensitivity with F6 (compare it to BetsyK in the last graph above)

0.7 scale for that Diatone type 610 looks really good in X's Akabak simulation.

For double the money there's an alnico version of the 610 - wonder if there's any sonic advantage ?
 
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#4,098
Thanks for the graphs freddy

The Diatone clone has smooth treble too. Never sounds agressive.I own the ferrite version and worth the money paid. It`s not very far from a Pluvia 7HD and have more sensitivity. I don't know if alnico version is better, never heard it.



Incidentally, I plugged Diaclones in a FrugelHorn MK3 and works. No much more bass than a 4", but it sounds ok.
 
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