Hi, I am not really interested to TG speakers but reading this post, I have seen that experiment members help him to choose a design regarding its front wall distance constrains. As a curiosity what speaker caracteristics are you looking at when you have to answer this constrain ? Speaker dimensions ? Drivers size ? Something else ? Thanks for your time.
They look amaZing those Mona Kea speaker's Rese!
I'am living in DK, and as a neighbour to your'e country i understand a lot of the German written/spoken langauge (this is regarding the Mona Kea website); BUT! it's unclear to me how much power they need ? ... Are they 92dB /1w perhaps? 😱
Mona Kea – 4 Wege Referenzlautsprecher – Donhighend Audio
Thank's so much in advance.
Jesper.
Koja, thanks for adding this- your enthusiasm is infectious. At the moment, I've lined up Faital 3WC as having the best balance of characteristics for: room placement, budget and WAF. The Ekta 2 has fallen off the list. My 3 way es22s with their 6"woofer are hardly a conventional design and may fall well short of the Ekta 2, but for the money and effort I don't want to risk more of the same with the 7" woofers of the Ekta.
I'm still wading my way through the material on the Elsinores and I need to give them quite a bit more time before I can make a decision. With all those drive units, I haven't yet established their configuration! Is it a 3 way? Presumably, I could save on transport by buying the drive units in Italy and purchasing the crossovers and design from Australia? buy the drive units in Italy
Meanwhile I'd love to hear from anyone about whether it's worth spending the extra on the Beryllium tweeters for the Faital 3WC, since its a hike of nearly 400 euros. Troels G seems to think so.
I'm still wading my way through the material on the Elsinores and I need to give them quite a bit more time before I can make a decision. With all those drive units, I haven't yet established their configuration! Is it a 3 way? Presumably, I could save on transport by buying the drive units in Italy and purchasing the crossovers and design from Australia? buy the drive units in Italy
Meanwhile I'd love to hear from anyone about whether it's worth spending the extra on the Beryllium tweeters for the Faital 3WC, since its a hike of nearly 400 euros. Troels G seems to think so.
Hi Jesper!
The Mona Kea is around 89dB / 1W and is a 4 ohm speaker.
You can drive them with any standard stereo amplifier. If you often hear loudly, I would recommend 100 watts per channel or more. But it also runs without problems on smaller amplifiers.
@lupo:
The Faital 3WC will not deliver a good performance off axis. The beryllium tweeter doesn't help either. This cannot physically work with such a driver combination. Therefore Troels did not publish any measurements of it.
However, a balanced response off axis is very important for the sound.
You always have to be careful when looking at measurements. With the Elsinore, for example, the response only looks so smooth because the Y-axis is extremely wide. Objectively speaking, this is not a particularly great speaker in my eyes, especially for 3000 bugs.
The Lewis, for example, can do this at least as well for around 250 euros per pair:
Pegelfeste lineare TQWT mit 30Hz Tiefgang und gutem Abstrahlverhalten - gazza-diy-audio.de
please note that the measurements are only valid from 300Hz upwards. In the bass, the Lewis reaches down to about 28Hz (-3dB).
Well on-axis measurement is only one metric. the listening experience by quite a few people who even decided to spend time on improving the XOver is a real testament to it.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/97043-elsinore-project-thread-128.html#post3137051
One can see in the graph that Joe targets a slope just like Troels does. The impedance is hard to beat. And I only suggested DIY and not buying a kit. check out the price of those peerless drivers (~US$50/ea); the only more expensive thing is the SS tweeter and the waveguide (used to be ~US$150).
Btw in LX521 for example one uses EQ to deliberately produce an uneven on-axis response because off-axis performance is the target, right? So I would not put any speaker down that i did not listen to based on a single measurement curve. I have no idea of Mona Kea and will never comment on it.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/97043-elsinore-project-thread-128.html#post3137051
One can see in the graph that Joe targets a slope just like Troels does. The impedance is hard to beat. And I only suggested DIY and not buying a kit. check out the price of those peerless drivers (~US$50/ea); the only more expensive thing is the SS tweeter and the waveguide (used to be ~US$150).
Btw in LX521 for example one uses EQ to deliberately produce an uneven on-axis response because off-axis performance is the target, right? So I would not put any speaker down that i did not listen to based on a single measurement curve. I have no idea of Mona Kea and will never comment on it.
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Thanks Rese - good to hear from you again. In my efforts to arrive at a decision, I'd sort of pushed the off axis issue to one side, even though stretchneck on this thread sold his Faital on because of vertical axis limits. I suppose when TG tells me that, on the contrary, the mid has "excellent dispersal", it's not the whole story once it's sitting in a box! Can I just check? Are you referring to vertical axis, or horizontal as well?
I'm still very interested indeed in the Mona Keas, but obviously I'm not feeling on top of the situation here. I'm used to reading very widely when homing in on something and there's little to nothing on this speaker outside of German speaking forums - like wise the Monacor speakers. I spent an hour or so this morning with google translate, but ended up none the wiser! Lykked, who has some German, has shown an interest - that's good and i hope we hear more from him/her. I'm wondering whether Thorsten Loesch knows of this designer. Can you point me to anywhere with some feedback on the Monacor drive units - or maybe that's not relevant, in view of what you said previously?
I'm still very interested indeed in the Mona Keas, but obviously I'm not feeling on top of the situation here. I'm used to reading very widely when homing in on something and there's little to nothing on this speaker outside of German speaking forums - like wise the Monacor speakers. I spent an hour or so this morning with google translate, but ended up none the wiser! Lykked, who has some German, has shown an interest - that's good and i hope we hear more from him/her. I'm wondering whether Thorsten Loesch knows of this designer. Can you point me to anywhere with some feedback on the Monacor drive units - or maybe that's not relevant, in view of what you said previously?
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Rese, the other issue for me is that as you will have gathered, the TG website makes crossover construction so clearly illustrated that even someone like me can see what to do! I'm looking again at the Mona Kea diagram and comparing it to the single picture of the finished boards. Most people on this site would breeze through without even the pic, but not me!
Sorry Koja, I didn't mean to say anything bad about the Elsinore. I just scanned the website and saw the price of $ 3000 and the measurement with a range of 180dB. That quickly makes me skeptical, but I'll take a closer look at the box.
@lupo:
Monacor is a German distributor, so most of the results are in German. The drivers are produced by manufacturers around the world, some from the PA sector probably also in Italy. The small midrange driver from the Mona Kea comes from Celestion in England.
Diego from dibirama has already tested some Monacor drivers. Maybe he can give you an assessment.
dibirama - italian diy loudspeakers di Diego Sartori
Unfortunately, I don't know Thorsten Loesch, so I can't comment on that.
The site of Alex aka donhighend is also quite limited to the German-speaking area due to the language. Therefore there are unfortunately not too many replicas outside. I can therefore understand very well that you are a little skeptical.
I can only speak of myself. I have heard a lot of the diy and the finished speakers (the high-end in Munich is only 80km away from me). From Troels I know the Poor Mans Strad and the DTQWT MKII. Since I was also interested in his speakers many years ago, I drove many kilometers to listen, but then I was quite disappointed with the sound.
The Mona Kea is one of my absolute favorites. No matter what price range. Therefore, the level of awareness is not so important to me. Everyone knows McDonalds, but certainly not because they sell the best burgers in the world.😉
@lupo:
Monacor is a German distributor, so most of the results are in German. The drivers are produced by manufacturers around the world, some from the PA sector probably also in Italy. The small midrange driver from the Mona Kea comes from Celestion in England.
Diego from dibirama has already tested some Monacor drivers. Maybe he can give you an assessment.
dibirama - italian diy loudspeakers di Diego Sartori
Unfortunately, I don't know Thorsten Loesch, so I can't comment on that.
The site of Alex aka donhighend is also quite limited to the German-speaking area due to the language. Therefore there are unfortunately not too many replicas outside. I can therefore understand very well that you are a little skeptical.
I can only speak of myself. I have heard a lot of the diy and the finished speakers (the high-end in Munich is only 80km away from me). From Troels I know the Poor Mans Strad and the DTQWT MKII. Since I was also interested in his speakers many years ago, I drove many kilometers to listen, but then I was quite disappointed with the sound.
The Mona Kea is one of my absolute favorites. No matter what price range. Therefore, the level of awareness is not so important to me. Everyone knows McDonalds, but certainly not because they sell the best burgers in the world.😉
Ok, I understand. The plan looks a little different from what is usual here. And the X-Over is also extensive because of the 4-way. If you like, I can draw you one that is clearer.
Gosh, thanks Rese. I feel that's expecting rather a lot from you, but I'm not going to say no! I don't wish to come across as skeptical, just finding my way...
All good. This is a big project and should therefore be considered carefully.
If I can help, I'll be happy to do it.
If I can help, I'll be happy to do it.
I meant to add, please don't go to any trouble just yet. I should do a bit more reading based on the advice given today. Then If I'm feeling pretty, or more, committed, I'll come back and take you up on your kind offer. I have to go and cook!
Maybe you guys can post some of the translated info on that speaker design here. After all, this is what this forum should be all about: spreading the joy ...😉
Good idea, I try to translate some of the testimonials.
User Vangart from Hifi-Forum.de reports in a test with several speakers:
Alex suggested that the bass reflex outputs for his room should be closed, otherwise it would be too much of a good thing. I disagreed with that because my ears generally prefer CB. And so the loudspeaker was allowed to begin its performance.
Gosh, that's a whole different league. The three of us immediately agreed on that. These four drivers reproduce even the most complex orchestral recordings with ease and precision that leave you speechless. So while we were feeding the Mona Kea with all kinds of complex material, Alex grinned mischievously and immediately put on an interpretation of Johann Strauss II's bandit gallop. And what followed is not suitable for young people under the age of 18. The loudspeakers reproduced these literal fireworks with a dynamic that I only know from PA chassis.
The bass reproduction has to be mentioned here in particular. So dry and contoured, it met my taste exactly. The same applies to the AMT. At the listening level, there wasn't the slightest hint of an unpleasant signal to be heard in the frequency response - very few tweeters manage that. All in all, the Mona Kea is one of the best I've ever heard. With regard to this level, only two other loudspeakers (price range 15,000-20,000 €) came to mind, which have made a similar impression on me in the past. Alex knew both of them and nodded in agreement. Ergo, the P / L ratio is easy to guess.
M.K. in the DAU-Gallery:
Extremely clean and deep in the CB version, a bit more powerful and punchy in the BR. Voices, timbre and treble reproduction at a veritable reference level. Especially surprising for those who listened to these boxes was how strikingly lifelike, free and emotionally appealing voices and instruments are in the room - almost tangible!
Galerie der Projekte - Nachbauten, Pimps, Abwandlungen, ...! - Der-Akustische-Untergrund
Bastian W. in the DAU-Gallery:
I am very enthusiastic about how fine they sound. And so detached that I can't tell which speaker it's coming from. Voices precisely in the middle. The bass is very powerful without appearing thick. Haven't heard so many high-end speakers yet, but this was my best listening experience.
Galerie der Projekte - Nachbauten, Pimps, Abwandlungen, ...! - Der-Akustische-Untergrund
M.S. at Facebook:
I heard the Mona Kea and was impressed, which doesn't happen very often to me. Unfortunately it's too big for my apartment and I think I prefer to listen "on principle" with my own designs. But Don Highend has developed a loudspeaker that has nowhere to hide... The Mona Kea vs. Audimax Core. I think the Mona Kea had an easy time ... amazing speaker.
TheTioz90 from Hifi-Forum:
Only the comparison really shows the capabilities of the MK. Because at first nothing sounds extraordinary. The dynamics are noticeable and I have also never experienced the sound stage and transparency. But it all sounds so natural. Only the comparison shows how much you can hear more with the MK.
Especially with bass drums in quick succession, I can tell whether a loudspeaker is suitable for me for a long time. If this is not presented with absolute precision and dryness, it can very quickly end in a mud of sound.
So far, Alex's Little Yellow Cab was the best, but at some point there wasn't enough pressure in the bass in my room. The Havofast had that, but could not represent the very extreme, fast stuff so precisely. The Mona Kea can do that perfectly.
Otherwise I would describe the sound as "out of nowhere". With all the speakers I have heard so far, the high frequency range at the beginning of a certain song was more or less annoying, with the Mona Kea not at all.
The infected mushrooms sound really great too. It's not really my kind of music, but it all sounds so vivid, contoured and real that with your eyes closed you could think that the music is right in front of you when I open my eyes - whatever the music may look like.
What I hear a lot now is the quality of the recording. That doesn't make songs of not that good quality inaudible, but the good recordings just sound much better.
That was now what I found without a long search. Maybe it will help.
User Vangart from Hifi-Forum.de reports in a test with several speakers:
Alex suggested that the bass reflex outputs for his room should be closed, otherwise it would be too much of a good thing. I disagreed with that because my ears generally prefer CB. And so the loudspeaker was allowed to begin its performance.
Gosh, that's a whole different league. The three of us immediately agreed on that. These four drivers reproduce even the most complex orchestral recordings with ease and precision that leave you speechless. So while we were feeding the Mona Kea with all kinds of complex material, Alex grinned mischievously and immediately put on an interpretation of Johann Strauss II's bandit gallop. And what followed is not suitable for young people under the age of 18. The loudspeakers reproduced these literal fireworks with a dynamic that I only know from PA chassis.
The bass reproduction has to be mentioned here in particular. So dry and contoured, it met my taste exactly. The same applies to the AMT. At the listening level, there wasn't the slightest hint of an unpleasant signal to be heard in the frequency response - very few tweeters manage that. All in all, the Mona Kea is one of the best I've ever heard. With regard to this level, only two other loudspeakers (price range 15,000-20,000 €) came to mind, which have made a similar impression on me in the past. Alex knew both of them and nodded in agreement. Ergo, the P / L ratio is easy to guess.
M.K. in the DAU-Gallery:
Extremely clean and deep in the CB version, a bit more powerful and punchy in the BR. Voices, timbre and treble reproduction at a veritable reference level. Especially surprising for those who listened to these boxes was how strikingly lifelike, free and emotionally appealing voices and instruments are in the room - almost tangible!
Galerie der Projekte - Nachbauten, Pimps, Abwandlungen, ...! - Der-Akustische-Untergrund
Bastian W. in the DAU-Gallery:
I am very enthusiastic about how fine they sound. And so detached that I can't tell which speaker it's coming from. Voices precisely in the middle. The bass is very powerful without appearing thick. Haven't heard so many high-end speakers yet, but this was my best listening experience.
Galerie der Projekte - Nachbauten, Pimps, Abwandlungen, ...! - Der-Akustische-Untergrund
M.S. at Facebook:
I heard the Mona Kea and was impressed, which doesn't happen very often to me. Unfortunately it's too big for my apartment and I think I prefer to listen "on principle" with my own designs. But Don Highend has developed a loudspeaker that has nowhere to hide... The Mona Kea vs. Audimax Core. I think the Mona Kea had an easy time ... amazing speaker.
TheTioz90 from Hifi-Forum:
Only the comparison really shows the capabilities of the MK. Because at first nothing sounds extraordinary. The dynamics are noticeable and I have also never experienced the sound stage and transparency. But it all sounds so natural. Only the comparison shows how much you can hear more with the MK.
Especially with bass drums in quick succession, I can tell whether a loudspeaker is suitable for me for a long time. If this is not presented with absolute precision and dryness, it can very quickly end in a mud of sound.
So far, Alex's Little Yellow Cab was the best, but at some point there wasn't enough pressure in the bass in my room. The Havofast had that, but could not represent the very extreme, fast stuff so precisely. The Mona Kea can do that perfectly.
Otherwise I would describe the sound as "out of nowhere". With all the speakers I have heard so far, the high frequency range at the beginning of a certain song was more or less annoying, with the Mona Kea not at all.
The infected mushrooms sound really great too. It's not really my kind of music, but it all sounds so vivid, contoured and real that with your eyes closed you could think that the music is right in front of you when I open my eyes - whatever the music may look like.
What I hear a lot now is the quality of the recording. That doesn't make songs of not that good quality inaudible, but the good recordings just sound much better.
That was now what I found without a long search. Maybe it will help.
Many thanks for this Rese, I'd found the first couple but not the rest! Just as impressive are the attentive and helpful responses from Alex the designer, to the many questions asked about this design.
I'm currently translating the Speaker descriptions and design and build notes from the Mona Kea page, which I'll try and put into a file here for others interested.
I've patched in the following question and answer for you to comment on:
"From what listening distance is "chassis fusion" ideal? Is 2.5m enough? My room is about 5.5x4m with a clear reverberation. I would then place the Mona Kea about 60cm from the back wall and about 1m from the side walls ...
The description of how you want to set it up is pretty much the same as mine. I also have about 1 meter to the sides, about 80 cm to the back, so a little more. Given your room size and geometry, I would also recommend the closed construction."
I'm just wondering whether "about 80cm to the back" means from the front or the rear face of the speakers" I do feel that a lot of Troels' designs make high efficiency (for lower powered valves etc.) more of a priority than is necessary or optimal for my SS set up. Hence, a plus point for the M K design. However there's just a very mild concern (you've already touched on it) as to whether my 90 watts pc. might have any impact, certainly not on volume, but on dynamics, I'm not talking party levels, just e.g. classical at appropriate levels for engaged listening. FWIW, the vol, control on my pre never reaches 9:00 (on a clock face) for CD (otherwise ouch for certain female vocals) and rarely exceeds 10 for vinyl and My es22s are rated 87db. the es22s used custom drivers that were developed specifically for the almost crossover less design. So, very different from the norm. Linesource, on this site, provided me with an amusing deconstruction of why theoretically they shouldn't work that well, but ...
Cheers!
I'm currently translating the Speaker descriptions and design and build notes from the Mona Kea page, which I'll try and put into a file here for others interested.
I've patched in the following question and answer for you to comment on:
"From what listening distance is "chassis fusion" ideal? Is 2.5m enough? My room is about 5.5x4m with a clear reverberation. I would then place the Mona Kea about 60cm from the back wall and about 1m from the side walls ...
The description of how you want to set it up is pretty much the same as mine. I also have about 1 meter to the sides, about 80 cm to the back, so a little more. Given your room size and geometry, I would also recommend the closed construction."
I'm just wondering whether "about 80cm to the back" means from the front or the rear face of the speakers" I do feel that a lot of Troels' designs make high efficiency (for lower powered valves etc.) more of a priority than is necessary or optimal for my SS set up. Hence, a plus point for the M K design. However there's just a very mild concern (you've already touched on it) as to whether my 90 watts pc. might have any impact, certainly not on volume, but on dynamics, I'm not talking party levels, just e.g. classical at appropriate levels for engaged listening. FWIW, the vol, control on my pre never reaches 9:00 (on a clock face) for CD (otherwise ouch for certain female vocals) and rarely exceeds 10 for vinyl and My es22s are rated 87db. the es22s used custom drivers that were developed specifically for the almost crossover less design. So, very different from the norm. Linesource, on this site, provided me with an amusing deconstruction of why theoretically they shouldn't work that well, but ...
Cheers!
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Taken the bait and I've done an English version covering all of the graphs and design and build rationale including a link to the 'Quint' parts shopping list. I didn't translate comments on the drive units, since anyone interested can easily check them out for themselves.
However I haven't the foggiest idea how to drop this quite lengthy document and its graphics into this reply - my IT skills are too rudimentary I'm afraid. Maybe I could PM it to someone more competent than myself, perhaps yourself, to drop it as a file on here. I'm not sure, but perhaps it needs to be on its own thread - whatever!
To my untutored and innocent eye, the graphs seem rather impressive. If you can find time to look and comment, that would be most welcome.
Hello or is it Hallo (German 🙂)
I live ~100km. from Troels, and around 2010 i did a visit to try something out.
Back then i had two fully balanced Pass F4's i've build, and i took them with me to have a listning at his place. It's was around the time where he had the DTQWT's in his livingroom; i must say that i was overwhelmed with the sound of them, and also that they do manage to play very very loud
... They are rather expensive to build, so i've never did!... I must admit that i have dreamed a lot of them since, but duo to the complex construction and also still the high price for the part's i still not get started in the year 2021... Some another thing to say, Troels is a very nice guy, and really pleasant to spend a hole saturday with back then... I had a blast, that's for sure!
I'am seeing this Mona Kea, and besides that the speaker's are 89 dB/2.8V/1 meter (please correct me if i'am wrong) they seem's to be a perfect fit for a future build for me 🙂
The fact that i know German's are at good building stuff, and are known for proof design and quality, i have no trouble jumping onboard such a build without listning to it firs't.
Jesper.
I live ~100km. from Troels, and around 2010 i did a visit to try something out.
Back then i had two fully balanced Pass F4's i've build, and i took them with me to have a listning at his place. It's was around the time where he had the DTQWT's in his livingroom; i must say that i was overwhelmed with the sound of them, and also that they do manage to play very very loud
... They are rather expensive to build, so i've never did!... I must admit that i have dreamed a lot of them since, but duo to the complex construction and also still the high price for the part's i still not get started in the year 2021... Some another thing to say, Troels is a very nice guy, and really pleasant to spend a hole saturday with back then... I had a blast, that's for sure!I'am seeing this Mona Kea, and besides that the speaker's are 89 dB/2.8V/1 meter (please correct me if i'am wrong) they seem's to be a perfect fit for a future build for me 🙂
The fact that i know German's are at good building stuff, and are known for proof design and quality, i have no trouble jumping onboard such a build without listning to it firs't.
Jesper.