Difficult to say by how much it matters but crystals in oscillators are elecro-mechanical devices and therefore susceptible to vibration, causing jitter.
Regards
Charles
Regards
Charles
Hi Ernie, Hey, where do think DAC jitter comes from? Lol
Imagine all the dsp amps that need to be pulled out of the prosound line arrays and put back on the ground 🙄
what is ancient and poor, doing simulation on a computer and then hook up a crossover and listen to and judge the result???
do you mean that you are happy with the first try the simulation spits out at you? i think this whole thread shows this is not working and that you need to understand the basics to get decent results, and for some learning by doing is good way to understanding, but of course that does not apply to youPlenty of highend studio monitors with built in amps as well 😱
I think the spl levels needed to affect electronics would clamp down someone's hearing before noticing jitter. If someone has measurements I'll gladly accept defeat.
Okay, seems the jitter caused by physical vibration of the quartz crystal is real, but the question is that this effect is audible? I don't think so.
A Texas Instrument studie below:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/snaa296&ved=2ahUKEwjNhJS32q_uAhXuwosKHQjXCekQFjANegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw3d7EJR8Ff4Ys61wSJ8nZbG&cshid=1611327660475
A Texas Instrument studie below:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/snaa296&ved=2ahUKEwjNhJS32q_uAhXuwosKHQjXCekQFjANegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw3d7EJR8Ff4Ys61wSJ8nZbG&cshid=1611327660475
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I wouldn't go as far as having the amps etc outside just because of this. But I would definitley separate the electronics from the backside of the woofer with an own compartment. And if it is just because of the thin sheet metal backplates and non-airtight sockets etc used in plate-amps.
Regards
Charles
Regards
Charles
The Fusionamps cannot be mounted in the same internal space as the woofer anyway, because they are not airtight.
If I where to build the amps into the speakers I would have them in their own sealed chamber. But I can't because it would take up volume in the cabinet but the cabinet is of the optimal volume for these woofers and I don't want to make the speakers any bigger.
And I'm gonna separate the amps anyway.
It's correct that pretty much any active speaker on the market have their electronics built in. Mainly because this is convenient and it would be weird to sell an active speaker with a seperate box of electronics. Mainly in the PA world it would be inconvenient to have te electronics seperately. And they aren't focussed on sound quality that much.
The effect of isolating your components is very audible. Again, this is the reason audiophile racks and isolation feet exist.
And I have experienced this myself. I work parttime at a high end store and before I worked there I often visited them. I'm a friend of the store. Whenever we put equipment on a vibration isolation product, there is a clear audible difference. We also recently got a new active system in the store. Even though it has everything built in, we opted for an external DAC. And there was a clear improvement. Since it was a Mola Mola Tambaqui this was obviously because of the quality of the DAC, but the isolation from vibrations also played a role.
And I'm gonna separate the amps anyway.
It's correct that pretty much any active speaker on the market have their electronics built in. Mainly because this is convenient and it would be weird to sell an active speaker with a seperate box of electronics. Mainly in the PA world it would be inconvenient to have te electronics seperately. And they aren't focussed on sound quality that much.
The effect of isolating your components is very audible. Again, this is the reason audiophile racks and isolation feet exist.
And I have experienced this myself. I work parttime at a high end store and before I worked there I often visited them. I'm a friend of the store. Whenever we put equipment on a vibration isolation product, there is a clear audible difference. We also recently got a new active system in the store. Even though it has everything built in, we opted for an external DAC. And there was a clear improvement. Since it was a Mola Mola Tambaqui this was obviously because of the quality of the DAC, but the isolation from vibrations also played a role.
That's one of the biggest misconceptions amongst loudspeaker builders. As long as you believe this is true it won't get you any further, ever. In fact it is the other way around, a good loudspeaker will be able to retreive the most out of a recording. When you have ever heard a truly good loudspeaker you will be amazed how good and enjoyable those "bad" recordings actually sound.
Most of the time there is a lack of bass impact together with large phase shift, bad of-axis response and often cone braekup that are all to blame on why a loudspeaker can sound truly amazing on some recordings and just painfully awfull on other recordings.
If a large part of your record collection doesn't sound good there is something seriously wrong with the loudspeakers, not the recording.
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i do not totally agree, some recordings are so bad that they are unlistenable throu neutral loudspeakers, only eq can tame them or speakers with inbuilt inverse flaws. i really would like there where some form of industry standard that every recording must be fulfilled before launch.
sure, it is great in some ways that kids can make music in their bedrooms with sloppy gear and then share it to the world, but saying that these recordings are best listened throu neutral speakers is simply not true
sure, it is great in some ways that kids can make music in their bedrooms with sloppy gear and then share it to the world, but saying that these recordings are best listened throu neutral speakers is simply not true
Well I don't really listen to modern music much. Definately not mainstream. But it's true. In fact, most modern music is mastered specifically to sound best on ****** systems.
Yes, for some recordings that is true, but for most it just isn't. Believe me, I used to think the same way untill I started recording myself. People should stop thinking this way otherwise it won't bring you any further. When someone is trying to sell you anything that "sound so good, it makes bad recordings even sound worse" just run away from it. Don't walk, run as fast as you can. It is nothing more than an indication of a flawed system, nomatter how good it sounds on your carefully preselected reference albums.
The last point is moot, and very interesting; I am suffering similarly to the OP but around the 300 to 800 Hz area, and many old recordings sound pretty bad - mushy.
My reaction to the long-tailed impulse response is that there is ringing somewhere.
I do agree that much recent stuff is of course affected by the current cultural norms, both the monitoring equipment, and overuse of processing, with a resulting flat dirty sound, peaking high much of the time. Anomalously much rap that I hear is almost pristine in cleanliness, openness, and vocal recording.
My reaction to the long-tailed impulse response is that there is ringing somewhere.
I do agree that much recent stuff is of course affected by the current cultural norms, both the monitoring equipment, and overuse of processing, with a resulting flat dirty sound, peaking high much of the time. Anomalously much rap that I hear is almost pristine in cleanliness, openness, and vocal recording.
As far as I can see the enclosure is floor standing during these "polluted" measurements.
A reasonable first step would be to place the enclosure as far away as possible from the nearest wall, floor and ceiling in order to avoid early reflections.
Place the loudspeaker on an open, acoustically transparant stand approx. one meter high and as far away as possible from walls during measurements. That might clean up your impulse response.
A reasonable first step would be to place the enclosure as far away as possible from the nearest wall, floor and ceiling in order to avoid early reflections.
Place the loudspeaker on an open, acoustically transparant stand approx. one meter high and as far away as possible from walls during measurements. That might clean up your impulse response.
Do not underestimate the modern "full mixing pre dac" They can smack on a fatter base and grip in the floor that only Infected could dream of ten years ago. 🙂
Sick Of You, a song by Jerome on Spotify
The worst is in my opinion "re master" then they have undergone several dacs and just smashed up the volume.
I think this is very true up to a certain point of loudspeaker development.
A speaker with excellent frequency response and smooth directivity, will likely fall close to the mean of recording studios' setups.
Once that level of speaker development has been reached, my experience is that it gets easier to discern recordings that were made in studios where bass was either too strong or too weak, same for highs, such that the recording falls into the 'needs help' bucket.
(It's very easy to identify the studio's spectral variations....they are simply the inverse of what EQ makes them sound correct on a "good" speaker.)
So really, yeah, a good speaker makes more tracks sound good, but it also identifies more tracks with what's wrong.
Analogous to, if you know the mean is correct, it's easier to be certain at identifying when away from the mean.
Kinda ironically, and as a related aside, I find two kinds of "bad" speakers make more tracks sound good than even "good" speakers.
First kind is one with limited highs and lows, but such that the limitations offset each other and the overall sound sounds tonally balanced.
I surmise this works because the regions most likely to vary the greatest in studios are the very ends of the spectrum...and the bad speaker just chops them away.
Second kind is a very diffuse, high ratio of reflected-to-direct sound speaker. IOW, omnis hide a lot of sin.
I have an old pair of Bose 901's hanging in the garage...that have both kinds of bad.
No highs, and no lows, almost entirely reflected sound. Heck, you can't even hear clipping tracks on the dang things.
It's amazing how pleasing almost everything sounds on them!
The moral of the story imo, is that pleasing/enjoyable, might often be a bit different animal than hi-fi.
"The moral of the story imo, is that pleasing/enjoyable, might often be a bit different animal than hi-fi"
That's what comes to my mind too. There was mentioned 'good" and "bad" speakers, but those markers needs a context and is all relative and subjective.
In the case of all recordings sounds fine on really good speakers, I don’t know if I’m used to really good speakers, or I’ve never heard of it in my life because I can’t interpret that statement.
Or what that means, "a good loudspeaker will be able to retrieve the most out of a recording". Most what? If you’re playing a “bad” recording, is that what comes out of the speakers also bad, or not?
Or the good speaker is that one which is always enjoyable regardless of sound material?
Or is there no such thing as bad recording, just bad speakers?
That's what comes to my mind too. There was mentioned 'good" and "bad" speakers, but those markers needs a context and is all relative and subjective.
In the case of all recordings sounds fine on really good speakers, I don’t know if I’m used to really good speakers, or I’ve never heard of it in my life because I can’t interpret that statement.
Or what that means, "a good loudspeaker will be able to retrieve the most out of a recording". Most what? If you’re playing a “bad” recording, is that what comes out of the speakers also bad, or not?
Or the good speaker is that one which is always enjoyable regardless of sound material?
Or is there no such thing as bad recording, just bad speakers?