The next driver I tested is the Tympany NE315W-08.
This is one of the most attractive looking subs I've seen and the Neo magnet
makes it real light.
First off is the 85 liter sealed. At most frequencies 2nd harmonic distortion creeps up faster than 3rd, this is a similar result to when this driver was tested in Voice Coil magazine July, 2010.
Here's the distortion measurements:
Frequency Spl of fundamental 2nd harmonic 3rd harmonic
16 72 -36 -26
20 65 -25 -38
25 63 -23 -35
31.5 56 -19 -23
40 83 -24 -54
50 106 -36 -26
63 105 -26 -50
attached is 60hz @80db and 100 db
This is one of the most attractive looking subs I've seen and the Neo magnet
makes it real light.
First off is the 85 liter sealed. At most frequencies 2nd harmonic distortion creeps up faster than 3rd, this is a similar result to when this driver was tested in Voice Coil magazine July, 2010.
Here's the distortion measurements:
Frequency Spl of fundamental 2nd harmonic 3rd harmonic
16 72 -36 -26
20 65 -25 -38
25 63 -23 -35
31.5 56 -19 -23
40 83 -24 -54
50 106 -36 -26
63 105 -26 -50
attached is 60hz @80db and 100 db
Attachments
![IMG_2313[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/812/812223-acbd871a9f3bc0e371c261d10dbd1a37.jpg)
Test this one.
It has face peeling kick drum.
Tell me how to coax it down another 10Hz and all my problems are solved.
PRV Audio 15W700 15" High Power PA Woofer 8 Ohm
It has face peeling kick drum.
Tell me how to coax it down another 10Hz and all my problems are solved.
PRV Audio 15W700 15" High Power PA Woofer 8 Ohm
Your thoughts using the above driver in
4.5-5 cu ft ported,
low pass filter ~35-40hz - tower F3/room gain dependent
aiming for about a 20hz F3
about 500-600W RMS on tap
When I get this figured out, I’ll build a twin
Do-able?
Thanks for your patience. Merry Christmas ���� Tony
Merry Christmas to you to Tony.
I guess it depends on what the use of the dayton RS 12 is. It does low bass well with low distortion. I didn't like it because there is a lot of losses in the suspension that cause it to not be able to respond to bass drum hits and other quick transients.
If you want something to do the pipe organ or low home theater rumbles this driver will do well. The low harmonic distortion allows you to hear mainly the fundamental so
in away the bass sounds deeper.
I guess so far I haven't found the perfect driver. The DIYSG magnum does the upper bass (50-100hz) transients well but it's distortion down low isn't as good as the Dayton RS 12".
I guess it depends on what the use of the dayton RS 12 is. It does low bass well with low distortion. I didn't like it because there is a lot of losses in the suspension that cause it to not be able to respond to bass drum hits and other quick transients.
If you want something to do the pipe organ or low home theater rumbles this driver will do well. The low harmonic distortion allows you to hear mainly the fundamental so
in away the bass sounds deeper.
I guess so far I haven't found the perfect driver. The DIYSG magnum does the upper bass (50-100hz) transients well but it's distortion down low isn't as good as the Dayton RS 12".
you answered my question.
I have everything above 35hz well covered by my towers woofers - a pair of 7” in each tower.
You described precisely what my Home Theatre system needs though I still hafta find the right driver for an LFE channel. Regardless, thanks for sharing your experience.
Considering this:
Tang Band’s WQ-1858 subwoofer boasts 500 watts RMS power handling, an ultra-low 20 Hz free air resonance, and more than 13 mm of Xmax.
Special suspension design, aluminum cone and dust cap
500W (RMS) of power loading, durable mechanical structure
F0 = 20Hz, X-max = 13.3mm
It’s good for high power subwoofer application
Product Details
Tang Band WQ-1858 12″ Aluminum Subwoofer
Tang Band’s WQ-1858 subwoofer boasts 500 watts RMS power handling, an ultra-low 20 Hz free air resonance, and more than 13 mm of Xmax. It also features a reinforced aluminum cone and dust cap, rubber half-roll surround, under-spider venting, vented pole piece, bumped backplate, stacked ceramic ferrite magnets, and a strong die cast frame.
PRODUCT SPECIFICATIONS
Nominal Diameter 12″
Power Handling (RMS) 500 Watts
Power Handling (max) 1000 Watts
Impedance 8 ohms
Frequency Response 20 to 400 Hz
Sensitivity 85 dB 1W/1m
Voice Coil Diameter 2″
Magnet Weight 51.2 oz.
THIELE-SMALL PARAMETERS
Resonant Frequency (Fs) 20 Hz
DC Resistance (Re) 6.8 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le) 0.15 mH
Mechanical Q (Qms) 3.88
Electromagnetic Q (Qes) 0.51
Total Q (Qts) 0.45
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas) 4.11 ft.³
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms) 0.33 mm/N
BL Product (BL) 17.64 Tm
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms) 179.61g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax) 13.3 mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd) 500 cm²
Meanwhile... thanks being part what is right about this forum!
Merry Christmas!
Charlie Brown - You Gotta Get Up - Rich Mullins - YouTube
Tony,
I haven't heard the tang band so I can't say for sure. But I would think the dayton rs would have lower distortion down low because the Tang Band doesn't list any methods to reduce distortion such as shorting rings in the motor.
I do like my 8" tang band in a folded horn, but that's a different beast. I do have the tang band 12" on my mental list of drivers to look for used to test. Looks like parts express doesn't carry them anymore though.
I haven't heard the tang band so I can't say for sure. But I would think the dayton rs would have lower distortion down low because the Tang Band doesn't list any methods to reduce distortion such as shorting rings in the motor.
I do like my 8" tang band in a folded horn, but that's a different beast. I do have the tang band 12" on my mental list of drivers to look for used to test. Looks like parts express doesn't carry them anymore though.
hi, what do u think of this sub? interested to use either this or LAB12 for combined use for music and HT.
cheers
henry
Regards the PRV Audio 15W700
Interesting. What OB did you use for the PRV Audio 15W700?
Please can you comment on what you heard with OB vs IB? Thanks.
Interesting. What OB did you use for the PRV Audio 15W700?
Please can you comment on what you heard with OB vs IB? Thanks.
They were in more or less an H frame with a tilted baffle, the top driver backwards. It started out as a "Kazba" but I got some weird sounds with the Karlson looking front on it so I removed it.
Going infinite baffle may have helped it dig a little deeper. It sounded great there too, but it retained its pro sound signature.
Going infinite baffle may have helped it dig a little deeper. It sounded great there too, but it retained its pro sound signature.
Like you, and so many others in here, I am looking for one, or two sub a to rule for music reproduction. Since that includes songs like The Flight of the Cosmic Hippo it has to dig deep.
So I'm thinking about my options again. Keep the PRV's and let them do the stuff 40 and up and and build something to plumb the depths below like an IB, Passive radiator or even a horn.
Or build something that can do it all.
What do you think? Sounds like your horn isn't quite audiophile enough for you.
Found this article about a decent passive radiator. I think I'd go with 12's though.
Build your own 10" subwoofer, a detailed how-to - Introduction
Could the PRV's be made passive radiator with qts of .62?
So I'm thinking about my options again. Keep the PRV's and let them do the stuff 40 and up and and build something to plumb the depths below like an IB, Passive radiator or even a horn.
Or build something that can do it all.
What do you think? Sounds like your horn isn't quite audiophile enough for you.
Found this article about a decent passive radiator. I think I'd go with 12's though.
Build your own 10" subwoofer, a detailed how-to - Introduction
Could the PRV's be made passive radiator with qts of .62?
Dave111,
I'm still in search for the answer that would help us both out, I love the impact I get from my BFM David horns and they sound really great 95% of the time. The 5% of the time I notice issues are with certain notes on the upright bass are too loud and have too much sustain. I believe I can fix this with EQ but I have opted for a very simple setup with these speakers. It's hooked up to an amazon link amp so that my family can use their voice to play music.
The cosmic hippo song sounds better to me in a dipole setup I have with two AE IB15HT. This setup is interesting you get the deep growl of the 5 string bass but because it's dipole it bounces around the room less. This setup lacks dynamics however, as it can sound stressed with moderate 80db levels. Dipole is really a rabbit hole if you want it loud and deep. The other issue I have is since it's a folded baffle I'm running into stored energy issues above 100hz. I've thought about upgrading to the AE Dipole woofers but it's hard to justify the extra cost since I got the original AE's for a deal used. Using something like your PRV's might help dynamics for upper bass but might not provide the brute excursion needed for deep bass.
One other song that's a real torture test is from a kids cartoon I've been watching with my daughter. It's the song Wheels from the Legend of Korra soundtrack. Whenever there is an action scene in the show and the prequel Avatar the soundtrack is often Taiko drums.
I've watched the FFT during this and I'm usually seeing peaks at 60 hz and 105hz. So far the only speaker that can get this right is my horns. The 12" subs are working too hard and I believe this is modulating the 105 hz, also this is around the crossover point. But even turning the crossover to 180 hz doesn't help, most of the 12" subs don't like to play high. The closest I can get is the DIYSG magnum 12 with a passive radiator, but still the horns are better. I believe the horn performs better because excursion vs spl is low and although the horn has a 7 foot path the phase response from 60-105hz is very flat. In other words, the 60hz and 105hz notes are playing at the same time but with about a 7ms delay. In other alignments such as sealed and ported the 60hz will follow the 105 hz as group delay rises as frequency lowers.
I can get the dipoles to play strong down to 30hz and the horns to 40hz. So long story short is maybe I should try the larger horns like the Tabletuba or THT, they will extend lower and also have great impact. There's also free horn sub plans like LilMike's Cinema F20 but it's worth the few dollars to me to have very detailed plans from Bill Fitzmaurice.
Haha, so no real answer for you Dave, but I am enjoying the journey and I will share what I've learned on this forum.
I'm still in search for the answer that would help us both out, I love the impact I get from my BFM David horns and they sound really great 95% of the time. The 5% of the time I notice issues are with certain notes on the upright bass are too loud and have too much sustain. I believe I can fix this with EQ but I have opted for a very simple setup with these speakers. It's hooked up to an amazon link amp so that my family can use their voice to play music.
The cosmic hippo song sounds better to me in a dipole setup I have with two AE IB15HT. This setup is interesting you get the deep growl of the 5 string bass but because it's dipole it bounces around the room less. This setup lacks dynamics however, as it can sound stressed with moderate 80db levels. Dipole is really a rabbit hole if you want it loud and deep. The other issue I have is since it's a folded baffle I'm running into stored energy issues above 100hz. I've thought about upgrading to the AE Dipole woofers but it's hard to justify the extra cost since I got the original AE's for a deal used. Using something like your PRV's might help dynamics for upper bass but might not provide the brute excursion needed for deep bass.
One other song that's a real torture test is from a kids cartoon I've been watching with my daughter. It's the song Wheels from the Legend of Korra soundtrack. Whenever there is an action scene in the show and the prequel Avatar the soundtrack is often Taiko drums.
I've watched the FFT during this and I'm usually seeing peaks at 60 hz and 105hz. So far the only speaker that can get this right is my horns. The 12" subs are working too hard and I believe this is modulating the 105 hz, also this is around the crossover point. But even turning the crossover to 180 hz doesn't help, most of the 12" subs don't like to play high. The closest I can get is the DIYSG magnum 12 with a passive radiator, but still the horns are better. I believe the horn performs better because excursion vs spl is low and although the horn has a 7 foot path the phase response from 60-105hz is very flat. In other words, the 60hz and 105hz notes are playing at the same time but with about a 7ms delay. In other alignments such as sealed and ported the 60hz will follow the 105 hz as group delay rises as frequency lowers.
I can get the dipoles to play strong down to 30hz and the horns to 40hz. So long story short is maybe I should try the larger horns like the Tabletuba or THT, they will extend lower and also have great impact. There's also free horn sub plans like LilMike's Cinema F20 but it's worth the few dollars to me to have very detailed plans from Bill Fitzmaurice.
Haha, so no real answer for you Dave, but I am enjoying the journey and I will share what I've learned on this forum.
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It sounds like in theory 3 subs would cover the bases for great sound and impact.
2 dipole or pro drivers that can pound your chest and play as the bottom of some mains.
An infrasonic (horn or huge sealed sub) that could cover the very bottom to say 30 or 40. Would placing an infrasonic closer take care of the group delay? Or is it a bad idea to have another sub in the mix doing it's own thing?
2 dipole or pro drivers that can pound your chest and play as the bottom of some mains.
An infrasonic (horn or huge sealed sub) that could cover the very bottom to say 30 or 40. Would placing an infrasonic closer take care of the group delay? Or is it a bad idea to have another sub in the mix doing it's own thing?
Well Dave, if I was rich maybe I'd just pick up a Orbit shifter horn: Data-Bass: Subwoofer Measurements
Based on the linked measurements it should cover the deep rumbles and the upper bass impact as well. However, more room reverberation than a dipole I would think and I'm not sure where I would hide it
Moving a sub closer, could help if the group delay is flat but most designs have a peak of group delay at their tuning frequency. Maybe a really fancy DSP could delay all your speakers to the delay at the peak but I don't know.
Some home theater guys are using the DIYSG magnum 12" for 50-150 hz because their monster 18"+ subs have inductance issues that roll off the upper bass. So multiple subs/woofers are working for them but probably a pain to setup right.
Based on the linked measurements it should cover the deep rumbles and the upper bass impact as well. However, more room reverberation than a dipole I would think and I'm not sure where I would hide it
Moving a sub closer, could help if the group delay is flat but most designs have a peak of group delay at their tuning frequency. Maybe a really fancy DSP could delay all your speakers to the delay at the peak but I don't know.
Some home theater guys are using the DIYSG magnum 12" for 50-150 hz because their monster 18"+ subs have inductance issues that roll off the upper bass. So multiple subs/woofers are working for them but probably a pain to setup right.