I noticed a complete absence of comparative discussion for the ZEN series of DIY amplifiers. Are they now too long in the tooth for consideration, or just not up to the quality standards of the FWs and Alephs?
Particularly interested in comments on the final iteration - the ZV9, as I have an unbuilt kit of parts staring me in the face saying...are you ever going to build me?
Nelson, what say???
Particularly interested in comments on the final iteration - the ZV9, as I have an unbuilt kit of parts staring me in the face saying...are you ever going to build me?
Nelson, what say???
The ZV9 is close enough to the F3 (see for example:
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/82865-watt-f3-zv9.html#post958722
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/164412-f3-vs-zv9-differences.html#post2142713)
that I would expect the comments regarding the F3 probably also apply
to the ZV9.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/82865-watt-f3-zv9.html#post958722
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-labs/164412-f3-vs-zv9-differences.html#post2142713)
that I would expect the comments regarding the F3 probably also apply
to the ZV9.
The ACA is the culmination of most of the Zen builds. At least that is what I gather from building many of them and reading about the rest. Single transistor clapping.
As far as my taste goes, you are on the right track! Aleph J and BA3 power amp are two of my absolute favorites.
That said, if your F5 has P3, (mine does not) you can alter taste quite a bit.
I used my F5 with B&C DE 250 compression driver and it wasn't that "unforgiving." I do prefer Aleph J and M2 better.
BA3 is a more mature design over F5 (I feel) and can be made quite powerful
if necessary. Big huge transparent sound scape with BA3. Build F5 since you have it, and construct Aleph J boards to swap out later, your build can facilitate this by using terminal blocks and connectors to power supply.
Based on your love of SE, and wanting more power, Aleph J sounds like the best move, so many First Watt, so little time!
Russellc
I'm inclined to agree, but those who know tell me to try F5 with P3 adjustment and I might be surprised. Mine is an older version that didn't have P3.
I have plans to revisit F5 with P3, and F6 as well, which I switched into an Aleph J. Both of those amps are very transparent, but can be seen as falling to the transparent less forgiving side.
Russellc
I used to have balanced son of zen, long time ago, I remember it sounded great on lowthers
but I got rid of lowthers, and was in the need of heatsinks, so I scavenged the parts for another build
pity, I remember it fondly, it sounded great, looked horrible though, it was so ugly that it clearly won the contest in thread "ugly but good working"
but I got rid of lowthers, and was in the need of heatsinks, so I scavenged the parts for another build
pity, I remember it fondly, it sounded great, looked horrible though, it was so ugly that it clearly won the contest in thread "ugly but good working"
I have a number of those laying around. I am not able to see sound so all is good.
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You mean all 20+ Pass DIY varieties? At 66 years old, I wish I had that much time left on Earth to do so!
Practically speaking, I'll build the Zen V9 and the new M2X. By the time I finish those two, I'll probably be half deaf anyway!
Greedy Boy Deliberations
As my exploration/journey through this hobby developed and I slowly gained a little more experience I have fallen into the trap of wanting to try more than I may actually ever have time or resources to complete. I know...this is a huge surprise that no one else here has experienced 😀 It has resulted in me acquiring a lot of different boards and kits that are not built yet.
Since we are talking about the sound characteristics of different First Watt amp designs, I wonder if I might also raise the question of what areas different First Watt designs might excel in?
For example when discussing the reproduction of bass/low frequencies as opposed to the reproduction of mid-range/vocals as well as high frequencies is there a particular First Watt design that appears to excel in these areas?
The reason I ask this question is because I am trying to solidify a plan for the next evolution of my system which will be expanding to include multiple horns and/or possibly a multi-entry horn which which will require additional amplification.
I am currently enjoying my recently finished F2J amps which I use with DX3s in some Oris front horns. They are supplemented with some dipole bass panels modeled on Pa’s SLOB article (albeit with scaled down baffles) which are driven by some bridged Rotel HT amps. There is also a Jamo powered active subwoofer to fill in the bottom end. A B5 manages things for the horns and panels.
I have wanted to try a few different drivers and horns for a while. Pa’s recommendation of the F2J with compression drivers has reinforced that desire.
I’d like to use the F2Js with some 350Hz Edgar horns I have. I have a pair of Radian 760PB neo and some Dynaudio D54 to try in them. I doubt I could cross either driver any lower than 800Hz. The Dynaudio may even require some assistance on the top end from a tweeter. If that is the case, I would come up with a series passive filter to add one and power it with the F2J as well.
I came into (4) used Acoustic Elegance dipole 18 subs and (2) Fusion FA502 Hypex amps recently at a rediculous bargain price. This will be the basis of my new dipole bass solution.
My initial intention is to build a conical adapter I modeled in hornresp for the Oris horns that will allow me to use them with some B&C 8pe21 drivers from about 200-800Hz and bridge the gap between the Edgars and dipole bass.
I am trying to decide what First Watt amp might be a good solution for these horns and drivers.
I’m pretty sure I have plenty of power with the Hypex amps to adjust for any additional gain I might need to match the efficiency of the the Edgar horns with either driver.
I’m not sure how much headroom I need as far as power with the amp for the Oris/B&C combination or what might integrate well with the Edgars running off of the F2Js with either driver that I have. The adapter and horn are modeling at about 110 dB in hornresp with one driver.
What say ye?
I have collected most parts and boards for a standard or turbo F5 amp. I also have boards or partial kits for Aleph J, F3, Sony VFET, SissySIT and more than one version of a J2. Might be others...I know, I’ve been a bit impulsive at times.
As my exploration/journey through this hobby developed and I slowly gained a little more experience I have fallen into the trap of wanting to try more than I may actually ever have time or resources to complete. I know...this is a huge surprise that no one else here has experienced 😀 It has resulted in me acquiring a lot of different boards and kits that are not built yet.
Since we are talking about the sound characteristics of different First Watt amp designs, I wonder if I might also raise the question of what areas different First Watt designs might excel in?
For example when discussing the reproduction of bass/low frequencies as opposed to the reproduction of mid-range/vocals as well as high frequencies is there a particular First Watt design that appears to excel in these areas?
The reason I ask this question is because I am trying to solidify a plan for the next evolution of my system which will be expanding to include multiple horns and/or possibly a multi-entry horn which which will require additional amplification.
I am currently enjoying my recently finished F2J amps which I use with DX3s in some Oris front horns. They are supplemented with some dipole bass panels modeled on Pa’s SLOB article (albeit with scaled down baffles) which are driven by some bridged Rotel HT amps. There is also a Jamo powered active subwoofer to fill in the bottom end. A B5 manages things for the horns and panels.
I have wanted to try a few different drivers and horns for a while. Pa’s recommendation of the F2J with compression drivers has reinforced that desire.
I’d like to use the F2Js with some 350Hz Edgar horns I have. I have a pair of Radian 760PB neo and some Dynaudio D54 to try in them. I doubt I could cross either driver any lower than 800Hz. The Dynaudio may even require some assistance on the top end from a tweeter. If that is the case, I would come up with a series passive filter to add one and power it with the F2J as well.
I came into (4) used Acoustic Elegance dipole 18 subs and (2) Fusion FA502 Hypex amps recently at a rediculous bargain price. This will be the basis of my new dipole bass solution.
My initial intention is to build a conical adapter I modeled in hornresp for the Oris horns that will allow me to use them with some B&C 8pe21 drivers from about 200-800Hz and bridge the gap between the Edgars and dipole bass.
I am trying to decide what First Watt amp might be a good solution for these horns and drivers.
I’m pretty sure I have plenty of power with the Hypex amps to adjust for any additional gain I might need to match the efficiency of the the Edgar horns with either driver.
I’m not sure how much headroom I need as far as power with the amp for the Oris/B&C combination or what might integrate well with the Edgars running off of the F2Js with either driver that I have. The adapter and horn are modeling at about 110 dB in hornresp with one driver.
What say ye?
I have collected most parts and boards for a standard or turbo F5 amp. I also have boards or partial kits for Aleph J, F3, Sony VFET, SissySIT and more than one version of a J2. Might be others...I know, I’ve been a bit impulsive at times.
chromenuts, I currently drive one of my speaker (2 way, 118dB horn) with Hypex (woofer) + 1 stage SIT single ended "follower" amp (minus gain). There is only a 600 ohm transformer between DAC's balanced output and SIT, and I have enough gain.
I calculated how much wattage I needed at first (the answer was less than 10 watt), and I chose minimal solution.
I calculated how much wattage I needed at first (the answer was less than 10 watt), and I chose minimal solution.
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@boydt Prior to building the F2J I built a pair of ACA monoblocks and used them with my DX3s and front horns. They had Semisouth 100A installed at Q1 and were very nice sounding as well. Before that I built a lm3875 gainclone which I lived with for a while. It was commercial equipment before that. I used a pair of Quicksilver Horn Monos with various drivers in the horns.
@plasnu I don’t think I’m so concerned about having enough gain in general as I might be in balancing gain between parts of the system and maintaining a cohesive tone. I’d like to do that without having to pad things down on the top end as much as possible. The Radian data sheet says they put out 111.5dB 1W/1M in their horns. I’m not sure what they will do in the Edgars. I am using a DCB1 as a preamp which I modified with some Jensen transformers on the output to pick up 6dB of gain.
@plasnu I don’t think I’m so concerned about having enough gain in general as I might be in balancing gain between parts of the system and maintaining a cohesive tone. I’d like to do that without having to pad things down on the top end as much as possible. The Radian data sheet says they put out 111.5dB 1W/1M in their horns. I’m not sure what they will do in the Edgars. I am using a DCB1 as a preamp which I modified with some Jensen transformers on the output to pick up 6dB of gain.