Hi mabat, for sure.. when distances to the individual drivers change with angle, there have to be different summations thru the xover region from relative phase shifts.
i just keep measuring that minimizing the frequency range (width) of the xover region using high orders, minimizes the frequency range of difficulty...
and as to the issue of abrupt phase change around xover, that's what the linear phase xovers solve.
There aren't any abrupt changes, as phase stays flat for both drivers throughout summation (or at least to least to minus 30-40 dB contribution points)
So with xovers that are both both steep and linear phase, the off axis summation issues distill down to geometry alone (geometry being of course inescapable).
But at least the problem frequency range is minimized via steep, and the difficult to sum abrupt phase changes are eliminated via linear.
Hi Mark100,
I'm following this very interesting thread and when you write that with linear phase xover, you don't have phase change at Fc, what about "off axis" at Fc ?
I'm following this very interesting thread and when you write that with linear phase xover, you don't have phase change at Fc, what about "off axis" at Fc ?
Hi Jcga, i've been talking about phase change at and around xover frequency, in the context that steep slope IIR xovers are fickle to adjust on and off axis.... that phase differences get amplified due to steep phase curves...like mabat said.
So linear phase xovers are to avoid that problem...haven't mentioned or considered anything going on at Fc... hopefully not a crossover 🙂
So linear phase xovers are to avoid that problem...haven't mentioned or considered anything going on at Fc... hopefully not a crossover 🙂
What I meant is that there are different delays for sound paths below and above the crossover region - the distances to drivers in general change with angle off axis. The narrower this region is (imagine an extreme situation), the more abrupt the change will be (group delay will jump up) - at least in my book. I can't see how it could be otherwise - this can't be compensated because of the changing delay.
Maybe it is not so bad in practice but this thought lead me to this position. I have never actually tried, I must confess.
Anyway, we are quite off topic here I guess.
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Cool Mabat, i still don't really get what you're saying, but like you also say, it's drifted off topic....which has been a most excellent thread indeed ...and is indeed yours 🙂
Hi Gedlee... all the studio monitors seem to favor steep crossovers, not saying much, but, I thought the idea the less interaction between the speakers the less issues caused by the interaction at crossover. Though steeper crossovers have a downside I thought it was a trade for the greater good? With a shallow slope, much more sharing of the bandwidth, how does one deal with the issues this causes?
On the other hand, why not devote a few pages to crossovers, which are always an integral part of what we do. I'd also love to learn something new from those more experienced. Please continue.
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Judging by the hard suspension, it's unlikely to behave any better than the MOR compression driver in this respect.
However, the breakup of the rear covers appears to be problematic 🙄
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The CD1.5NR1 may not be the best choice but CD1.5NR1P (PEN diaphragm) looks very clean, at least based on impedance in datasheet. I'm tempted to try this one out but the last thing I need are more compression drivers...
I think I'll be in Prague in June, it might be fun to see if anyone else wants to meet up and talk shop.
I'm taking the fam on a Mediterranean cruise but I'll probably do a detour to Prague because it's one of my favorite cities.
I fully agree about Prague. Been there three times, I love it. My advisor was also from Prague.
I'd love to join you, but I just don't know what this summer will bring. I'll be in Madrid the end of the month though!
PS: Interesting catch on the driver material. That's new to me.
I'd love to join you, but I just don't know what this summer will bring. I'll be in Madrid the end of the month though!
PS: Interesting catch on the driver material. That's new to me.
Prague isn't called the "Golden City" for nothing 😉
Madrid is definitely also worth a visit, it's where my best buddy lives and works.
Compared to a miniature zoo, such as Amsterdam, the pace of life there is very relaxed.
Be sure to visit one of the many museums. If you don't feel like going to the big Prado, I recommend
Museo Reina Sofía, which hosts Picasso's Guernica.
Some pics of the Eminence "Be Killer", which is expected to be sold for around € 340 each.
Madrid is definitely also worth a visit, it's where my best buddy lives and works.
Compared to a miniature zoo, such as Amsterdam, the pace of life there is very relaxed.
Be sure to visit one of the many museums. If you don't feel like going to the big Prado, I recommend
Museo Reina Sofía, which hosts Picasso's Guernica.
Some pics of the Eminence "Be Killer", which is expected to be sold for around € 340 each.
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During one of my visits, I went to see "Guernica" in the evening (free entrance). I walked straight to the room and was alone with the painting for about 10 minutes ... A transcedental experience.
Since you are interested in glass, I guess this is a "must see" as well:
Since you are interested in glass, I guess this is a "must see" as well:
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Here's another driver with 2.5" VC, albeit with PEEK instead of PEN diaphragm.
This Chinese brand isn't well known in the Western world, but at least Crescendo thinks the huge Carbon cone drivers (up to 80") are good enough for their (ultra) expensive subs.
The driver is available at a number of Ukrainian stores for less than € 100.
This Chinese brand isn't well known in the Western world, but at least Crescendo thinks the huge Carbon cone drivers (up to 80") are good enough for their (ultra) expensive subs.
The driver is available at a number of Ukrainian stores for less than € 100.
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You can find the first price tag on EMINENCE >N314X-8 送料無料 | Sound House
37.800 Yen = 343,92 US-Dollar =313,44 Euro (without taxes)