I know we haven't decided anything yet but I just drop this here again, 94db with a bargain price 😎
also have a 12" version.
also have a 12" version.
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Only the 12BG100 sensitivity is a little less, about 1.5 dB, than the Eminence Magnum 12.Yes, this looks pretty good.
With the B&C 12 BG100 you get near identical performance at 30L with the same 45hz tuning, but it does cost twice as much.
It is correct, this B&C can operate in a 30L cabinet for a F3 = 45Hz.
But for this project we need F3 to be lower. We have to find the best acceptable compromise for F3 - sensitivity - dimensions - price.
agreed, compromises...But for this project we need F3 to be lower. We have to find the best acceptable compromise for F3 - sensitivity - dimensions - price.
I know we haven't decide anything yet but I just drop this here again, 94db with a bargain price 😎
also have a 12" version.
fs = 46.5Hz, which means F3 cannot be lower. F3 has to be about 35 Hz to be acceptable I expect...
It doesn't say the poll is closed no more but there is no edit options available 😎
maybe you can add the suggestions in post #410 to the poll ? and reset it , please 🙂

21 choices is too many for the poll, try narrow it down to 10 if possible.
How about 3-5 maybe?
Only the 12BG100 sensitivity is a little less, about 1.5 dB, than the Eminence Magnum 12.
It is correct, this B&C can operate in a 30L cabinet for a F3 = 45Hz.
But for this project we need F3 to be lower. We have to find the best acceptable compromise for F3 - sensitivity - dimensions - price.
I really like the B&C 15BG100- 120L, tune to 32hz, F3= 30hz, sens 94db.
Downside = 120L, $$
I know we haven't decided anything yet but I just drop this here again, 94db with a bargain price 😎
also have a 12" version.
Looks like a suitable option to me. Similar Thielle/Small parameters as the Fane Sovereign 10-300SC.
I really like the B&C 15BG100- 120L, tune to 32hz, F3= 30hz, sens 94db.
Downside = 120L, $$
Hmm, I couldn't get a nice response from this tuning using my simulator. I assume you used a ported box?
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Hmm, I couldn't get a nice response from this tuning using my simulator. I assume you used a ported box?
Yes, winisd beta
Yes, winisd beta
I tried AJ Horn and Vituix. I am new to both. Results were very different. Either I am just not good with these simulators, or... well.
To get a useful basis to discuss driver size vs. f3 and WAF it would be useful if someone could do a comparison of 10", 12" and 15" like this:
- Bass reflex box with flat response at about 95 dB @2.83V @1m into half space / infinite baffle. With a bit of luck this should still give 92 dB after subtracting baffle step.
- You'll need to find / choose suitable drivers that work well to achieve the above target. I like to poke around on Loudspeaker Database for this purpose. Some software packages also have built-in driver database that is useful for this. So far it seemed to me the Fane Sovereign Pro 10-300SC, Ciare FXE 10-2.5 and the Volt BM251.3 would work in the 10" class (but my simulations might be crap). Use "8 Ohm" drivers only (lower impedance is not "weak amp friendly").
- Questions: what is the f3 and box volume? These will be useful to discuss WAF vs. f3.
A good compromise for F3, size and sensitivity seems to me a 12 inch 8 Ohm in about 80 L basreflex cabinet.
An example can be Eton 12-212 in 80 L basreflex tuned at 32 Hz, F3 = 35 Hz. Sensitivity 92dB @ 1m, 2.83V half space, 86 dB full space.
Even the Eton 11 inch 11-212 in 60 L basreflex and tuned at 32Hz, F3 = 35 Hz. Sensitivity 91dB @ 1m, 2.83V half space, 85 dB full space.
This driver is used in many Avalon speakers, like the Eidolon for example.
Avalon is tuning the system at a lower frequency to make a more extended basreflex with a little higher F3.
With a passive filter the combination system-filter has to be optimized for the desired response.
An example can be Eton 12-212 in 80 L basreflex tuned at 32 Hz, F3 = 35 Hz. Sensitivity 92dB @ 1m, 2.83V half space, 86 dB full space.
Even the Eton 11 inch 11-212 in 60 L basreflex and tuned at 32Hz, F3 = 35 Hz. Sensitivity 91dB @ 1m, 2.83V half space, 85 dB full space.
This driver is used in many Avalon speakers, like the Eidolon for example.
Avalon is tuning the system at a lower frequency to make a more extended basreflex with a little higher F3.
With a passive filter the combination system-filter has to be optimized for the desired response.
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Very nice driver for a system, but big ... it is what someone wants 🙂I really like the B&C 15BG100- 120L, tune to 32hz, F3= 30hz, sens 94db.
Downside = 120L, $$
Ok, so now we're at 80 liter monkey coffin and ca 90-92dbw? So definately a 12" then.
Kind of hard to make a BR that digs deep that size. The Beyma 12BR70 is quite good and performs well in a 60 liter sealed chamber. There may be some 15" that can work well in such a small volume (80 liters is small for a 15"), but not many.
Kind of hard to make a BR that digs deep that size. The Beyma 12BR70 is quite good and performs well in a 60 liter sealed chamber. There may be some 15" that can work well in such a small volume (80 liters is small for a 15"), but not many.
The 12BR70 needs 90 L for the Qtc to be not higher than 0.70 in a closed box.Ok, so now we're at 80 liter monkey coffin and ca 90-92dbw? So definately a 12" then.
Kind of hard to make a BR that digs deep that size. The Beyma 12BR70 is quite good and performs well in a 60 liter sealed chamber. There may be some 15" that can work well in such a small volume (80 liters is small for a 15"), but not many.
In 60 L the Qtc becomes too high IMO, about 0.80.
In 90 L closed box the F3 becomes 44 Hz.
Ok, so now we're at 80 liter monkey coffin and ca 90-92dbw?
It depends. Personally, I'd like it to do 92 dB (2.83V, 1m) into free space (not infinite baffle, as most simulators will do). And 80 L is too big for my taste and WAF constraints. 50 L would be nicer. I am willing to compromise on deep bass extension.
How about 3-5 maybe?

Hi Mbrennwa,
I understand now how you use the Fane Pro 10-300 in a basreflex concept. The cabinet volume higher than Vas of the driver and tune it around fs.
I see that for a cabinet of 50 L the F3 becomes around 50 Hz (w.r.t. 200 Hz).
You can choose the cabinet even larger, then F3 becomes lower, but the system response also more resonant.
The sensitivity of 92 dB in full space is quite impressive. That is a strong advantage of such a system.
I agree that a high sensitivity system can also become a very good performing speaker, even with a F3 which is higher.
These systems are playing very easy in some way, because of the high sensitivity.
It is a choice that has to be made.
Fane Pro 10-300 in 50 L basreflex, Audio Elegance TD6M and Satori TW29BN could be a nice combination maybe...
Paul
I understand now how you use the Fane Pro 10-300 in a basreflex concept. The cabinet volume higher than Vas of the driver and tune it around fs.
I see that for a cabinet of 50 L the F3 becomes around 50 Hz (w.r.t. 200 Hz).
You can choose the cabinet even larger, then F3 becomes lower, but the system response also more resonant.
The sensitivity of 92 dB in full space is quite impressive. That is a strong advantage of such a system.
I agree that a high sensitivity system can also become a very good performing speaker, even with a F3 which is higher.
These systems are playing very easy in some way, because of the high sensitivity.
It is a choice that has to be made.
Fane Pro 10-300 in 50 L basreflex, Audio Elegance TD6M and Satori TW29BN could be a nice combination maybe...
Paul
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We have to limit our options for poll (cannot include 21 suggestions).
So I tried to limit the options by the design type and target they are proposing, which I think make sense, since for example NS-5000 and Harbeth both have similar coffin style box with similar speaker sizes, more detailed features can be discussed later, also tried to represent all suggested design types so let me know if i miss something.
also I used "Classic Box" term instead of monkey coffin so it won't confuse people w certain design goal/look.
1- Classic Box - 10" Woofer + 5-8" Cone Midrange + Dome Tweeter (90-92db+ , F3~40-50Hz)
2- Classic Box - 10" Woofer + 5-8" Cone Midrange + Dome Tweeter (86-88db+ , F3~30-40Hz)
3- Classic Box - 12" Woofer + 5-8" Cone Midrange + Dome Tweeter (~90db , F3~35-40Hz)
4- Classic Box - 2x 8" Woofers + 4-6" Cone Midrange + Dome Tweeter (90-92db+ , F3~35-45Hz)
5- Tower - 2x 8" Woofers + 4-6" Cone Midrange + Dome Tweeter ((90-92db+ , F3~30-40Hz)
6- Sealed Box - 10-12" Woofer + Open Baffle 5-8" Cone Midrange + Dome Tweeter (~90+ F3~50Hz)
7- Stand Mount - DSP Controlled Narrow Bandwidth - 4x 6.5" Woofers + 5" Midrange + 1" Dome Tweeter (~100db , ~30Hz)
if this is acceptable to you let know so we can start the poll asap 🙂
ps: didn't include the wave guided tweeter option here since it would be more than 10 options again, we can discuss it later.
So I tried to limit the options by the design type and target they are proposing, which I think make sense, since for example NS-5000 and Harbeth both have similar coffin style box with similar speaker sizes, more detailed features can be discussed later, also tried to represent all suggested design types so let me know if i miss something.
also I used "Classic Box" term instead of monkey coffin so it won't confuse people w certain design goal/look.
1- Classic Box - 10" Woofer + 5-8" Cone Midrange + Dome Tweeter (90-92db+ , F3~40-50Hz)
2- Classic Box - 10" Woofer + 5-8" Cone Midrange + Dome Tweeter (86-88db+ , F3~30-40Hz)
3- Classic Box - 12" Woofer + 5-8" Cone Midrange + Dome Tweeter (~90db , F3~35-40Hz)
4- Classic Box - 2x 8" Woofers + 4-6" Cone Midrange + Dome Tweeter (90-92db+ , F3~35-45Hz)
5- Tower - 2x 8" Woofers + 4-6" Cone Midrange + Dome Tweeter ((90-92db+ , F3~30-40Hz)
6- Sealed Box - 10-12" Woofer + Open Baffle 5-8" Cone Midrange + Dome Tweeter (~90+ F3~50Hz)
7- Stand Mount - DSP Controlled Narrow Bandwidth - 4x 6.5" Woofers + 5" Midrange + 1" Dome Tweeter (~100db , ~30Hz)
if this is acceptable to you let know so we can start the poll asap 🙂
ps: didn't include the wave guided tweeter option here since it would be more than 10 options again, we can discuss it later.
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fs = 46.5Hz, which means F3 cannot be lower. F3 has to be about 35 Hz to be acceptable I expect...
Looks like a suitable option to me. Similar Thielle/Small parameters as the Fane Sovereign 10-300SC.
fs of its bigger brother (12") is 27Hz, but a large Vas of 205.
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