It's Behringer, but is this basically what we're talking about?
https://www.parts-express.com/behringer-cx2310-super-x-pro-crossover-2-way-3-way--248-664
Edit: This is line level though... so before the amp.. so it would have low freq and high freq outputs... but I'm not bi-amped so I don't see how this could work with my single yamaha amp?
https://www.parts-express.com/behringer-cx2310-super-x-pro-crossover-2-way-3-way--248-664
Edit: This is line level though... so before the amp.. so it would have low freq and high freq outputs... but I'm not bi-amped so I don't see how this could work with my single yamaha amp?
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Ahhhh.... bloody hell...
I'll already have another stereo amp driving the HT sub.. but at least I can feed that one with the sub out RCA. I don't think my v870 has pass thru RCAs.. it has pre-amp outputs and amp inputs on the back that are normally jumpered together so maybe you could use that with another amp if it had a pass thru.. but yikes.
There's got to be a better way... Is passive @ the speaker the only other option? Maybe that's still best then.
I'll already have another stereo amp driving the HT sub.. but at least I can feed that one with the sub out RCA. I don't think my v870 has pass thru RCAs.. it has pre-amp outputs and amp inputs on the back that are normally jumpered together so maybe you could use that with another amp if it had a pass thru.. but yikes.
There's got to be a better way... Is passive @ the speaker the only other option? Maybe that's still best then.
Like what?
Passive or active are the only crossover options. Line level crossovers can be passive or active. High level (speaker) crossovers are passive. What's the problem? amps are cheap Well, any extra bits required that cost money will be coming out of the budget for the mains... otherwise this is a runaway situation!
I don't know what if anything else is an option, it was an honest question... So in my case, I don't seem to be able to use line level crossovers (active or passive) without adding an amplifier, which won't really work, which means replacing my amp with something else... yes, this is a runaway train!
Sounds like I'm back to passive high level crossovers.. but it was a worthwhile detour
I don't know what if anything else is an option, it was an honest question... So in my case, I don't seem to be able to use line level crossovers (active or passive) without adding an amplifier, which won't really work, which means replacing my amp with something else... yes, this is a runaway train!
Sounds like I'm back to passive high level crossovers.. but it was a worthwhile detour
It can get like a runaway train very easily that's for sure, there is almost no limit to how complicated it can get, that's why keeping it simple is so appealing. You can use the amp you have, you just need another one too if you want line level crossover.
I expanded my system from the fullrange Jordan VTL to the OB FAST by making the original cabinet adaptable because I couldn't make up my mind which way to go and wanted it to be flexible and improvable without wastage
I expanded my system from the fullrange Jordan VTL to the OB FAST by making the original cabinet adaptable because I couldn't make up my mind which way to go and wanted it to be flexible and improvable without wastage
Interesting thread, all. I recently snagged some of what is known, in Dutch audio circles at least, as the king of the full rangers: the Philips AD12202 M/8, last in a long line of 12" full rangers.
I've only played them so far without box or even an open baffle, but the sound is mesmerizing. There's a certain presence with such a big driver that is extremely hard to match with modern smaller full rangers, or even vintage 8"'s.
Not much bass off course, without a cab, but enough to know it's there. I had some spooky goosebump moments listening to cello music (Janos Starker), anxious to see what I can make of them in a full enclosure. Unfortunately I lack the space for two open baffles.
I've only played them so far without box or even an open baffle, but the sound is mesmerizing. There's a certain presence with such a big driver that is extremely hard to match with modern smaller full rangers, or even vintage 8"'s.
Not much bass off course, without a cab, but enough to know it's there. I had some spooky goosebump moments listening to cello music (Janos Starker), anxious to see what I can make of them in a full enclosure. Unfortunately I lack the space for two open baffles.
Another nice full range! They're all over the place...
I wonder, is that big driver presence retained when one uses a smaller full range driver like a 5-6" alpair or fostex along with a large helper woofer?
I'm starting to maybe like the sound of the OB... Too many good things said about them not to...
Here's a thread I'm reading back from when MJK released his white paper on the GW 18" and the JX92 :
MJK’s Jordan JX92S OB with a Goldwood GW-1858 Woofer in an H Frame
Scott, I'm puzzling out how I'd run another amp off my yamaha... what, using line level inputs? Run the receiver main L/R wires to the main speakers (full rangers), then run parallel wires to line level inputs on another amp, and outputs from that amp to the H-frame 18" goldwoods? Seems kind of.. dodgy?
Can I use any type of full range (ignoring crossover frequencies and efficiency) enclosure within reason with that goldwood 18" H frame? I see Mr. Zilla used to run his 18" H frames with an 8" BIB behind them and he seemed pleased with them... But aren't there all kinds of issues with phasing and time delay there? Or would I even hear any of that?
I wonder, is that big driver presence retained when one uses a smaller full range driver like a 5-6" alpair or fostex along with a large helper woofer?
I'm starting to maybe like the sound of the OB... Too many good things said about them not to...
Here's a thread I'm reading back from when MJK released his white paper on the GW 18" and the JX92 :
MJK’s Jordan JX92S OB with a Goldwood GW-1858 Woofer in an H Frame
Scott, I'm puzzling out how I'd run another amp off my yamaha... what, using line level inputs? Run the receiver main L/R wires to the main speakers (full rangers), then run parallel wires to line level inputs on another amp, and outputs from that amp to the H-frame 18" goldwoods? Seems kind of.. dodgy?
Can I use any type of full range (ignoring crossover frequencies and efficiency) enclosure within reason with that goldwood 18" H frame? I see Mr. Zilla used to run his 18" H frames with an 8" BIB behind them and he seemed pleased with them... But aren't there all kinds of issues with phasing and time delay there? Or would I even hear any of that?
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I have a set (in the family, don’t know the number at the moment) sitting downstairs waiting to be EnABLed. Big soup can sized alnico magnet.
dave
I didn't read the whole thread but the Fane 12'' 250tc could be a good one to try. It's actually said to reach up fairly high as claimed using it's twin whizzer cone design. Awesome sensitivity, higher qts than in spec's I believe I read somewhere (I think it measured in the lower 8's?, can't remember) so it would be open baffle friendly or whatever you want to try etc. Seems like a great all round inexpensive larger single driver that will do a good bit of the audio spectrum all by it's lonesome. Dunno. Could be fun to tweak or just add some eq as needed etc.
https://solen.ca/wp-content/uploads/12250tc.pdf
https://solen.ca/wp-content/uploads/12250tc.pdf
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Yes, they're imposing beasts. Not too much advanced cone materials or surface treatments, so there might be some improvement there.
BTW, do you intend to put these in Em-Kens? The drivers look alike when it comes to T/S parameters, except for the much higher Qms of the Eminence.
bigfatbessel by ctjr, on Flickr
Pic of the model I made in SketchUp to see what a roughly 144,5 L Bessel arrangement would look like. It's a hefty box allright.
The calculations were gleaned of Dominique Petion's site, who has done exhaustive calculations on this particular model.
If i put them in anything it will be an optimized monster miniOnken. I will have to work from the numbers from S+L WT2, which usually isn’t as good as the stuff the factories use. I looked at them today, they son’t have an AD number so i’ll have to figure out exactly what they are from the long model number.
dave
To add my 2 cents, I have an Open baffle with Visaton B200 on top and Eminence Beta 15 on top. It sounds airy, relaxed, nice, but surely not punchy. To the extent that I consider scrapping them and buiding a big sealed box for Visatons (or something like Em-kens) and building some linkwits EQ small sealed subs with Beta 15s...
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Hi Dave, yes I recall you saying something just wasn't quite right about the sound... That's part of why I wanted to know how it would go if I did a sealed or bass reflex (or even still something like a BIB) to set on top of the H-frame woofer. Since the bass coming out of the port or out of the horn wouldn't necessarily be in phase with the bass coming out of the big goldwood, things may cancel out rather than build.. or just sound odd.
I see, so I'd use the receiver as a pre-amp for another amp (class D) that drives the woofers on the mains. That would be workable. It's only another 100 bucks.. but these "only a few dollars more" items add up when there's ten of them, lol. The receiver already amplifies the sound, from 20-20k, so I guess it just seems odd to waste the 20-200 range and amplify it separately.. I hadn't really realized what bi/tri amping was all about til recently. I like to keep it simple (KISS), and there's already a lot of junk in the entertainment center. So I was hoping for no additional stuff to purchase and store in that sense.
I should have clarified that a bit more - I didn't mean mix and match things willy-nilly. But mixing in other full range speakers with similar efficiency (or toning them down with an L-pad if needed) and range ought to be "okay", no? Granted, depending on the frequency response of the FR driver the crossover could/would need changed. I was thinking about still trying a bigger FR cone like the Betsy or even the 12lta (or Fane 250), just for that warm big speaker sound... But I'd really have to listen to something like the betsy or 12lta alongside something like the alpair 10.3, both cut off below 200 hz (or whatever the crossover point ended up being - 200hz seems rather high if you're trying to keep all the vocals in the FR driver)
Lack of room pressurization... Is that pressurization what creates that "punch"? I suspect it's multiple things... That pressurization could be one thing. Physically feeling the vibrations going from the cabinet->floor->couch->body might be another important one. Perhaps there are other things at play as well?
Those goldwood 18's are... big. lots of cone area, so they have to potentially move lots of air...
It's hard to believe that there wouldn't be some "punch" there, just based on that cone area.
But then again, it's also hard to believe that mounting speakers in a piece of plywood alone would sound good!
I guess a safe game plan would involve selecting drivers to try in something like MJK's open baffle/H frame setup that would also work equally well in a traditional cabinet - whether that be sealed, bass reflex, tl, ml-tl, horn...
Once you hear a large full range driver (I'm talking 12" and larger) in an OB setup there is no going back. The instruments and voices appear IN THE ROOM. There is nothing that can compare but very few people have actually heard this.
I used to have the Hornshoppe horns. Great sounding implementation of the Fostex drivers. But they sound like miniature toys in comparison. Ditto the MarkAudio drivers I tried.
I used to have the Hornshoppe horns. Great sounding implementation of the Fostex drivers. But they sound like miniature toys in comparison. Ditto the MarkAudio drivers I tried.
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