Now as you can see, i chopped the big former and what do you know: very good results resulted, in measurements and listening sessions.
So it seems that a double syded coil with a bigger former, (BUT NOT SO BIG) is the key and a good combo. Another thing is that now, for this version, the coil has 5mm on each syde glue, so that its not sticked strictly onto the 3cm area of the coil, now its bonded on 4cm area with the 3cm coil in the center and the former extend outsyde of the bonded region for only 3 mm, so it has a total of 4.3cm bonded. It sounds incredible now. Its like its projecting the singer insyde you house in your face. Its just incredible.
I tryed to stick the cilinders 4.3cm as in the BIG FORMER version in my FIRST version (the one with double adhesive tape) (the s.glue version) with super glue, but without succes, as you can see in my above measurements. You will see in my vid the explanations.
Cheers
Sergiu
So it seems that a double syded coil with a bigger former, (BUT NOT SO BIG) is the key and a good combo. Another thing is that now, for this version, the coil has 5mm on each syde glue, so that its not sticked strictly onto the 3cm area of the coil, now its bonded on 4cm area with the 3cm coil in the center and the former extend outsyde of the bonded region for only 3 mm, so it has a total of 4.3cm bonded. It sounds incredible now. Its like its projecting the singer insyde you house in your face. Its just incredible.
I tryed to stick the cilinders 4.3cm as in the BIG FORMER version in my FIRST version (the one with double adhesive tape) (the s.glue version) with super glue, but without succes, as you can see in my above measurements. You will see in my vid the explanations.
Cheers
Sergiu
Attachments
You will laught till you hickup. Its obviously that the coil its rubbing, but i cannot see where because i dont have cuts in the membrane.. Or it might sum the dist from both cils. I never measred more than 10% when rubbing with single coils...
look ::🙂))) 🙂)) 🙂))
Attachments
Hello my friend.
Here it is:
1. The vid with the explanations. The bad thing is that youtube shrinked it to 480p when uploaded from my phone. Hope the sound is not shrinked too.. 🙁
https://youtu.be/X3URSmcaOLU
2. A song played from begining to the end in full range. Youtube shrinked it to 720p..
https://youtu.be/OkQi7ZFGRtY
Cheers
Sergiu
Here it is:
1. The vid with the explanations. The bad thing is that youtube shrinked it to 480p when uploaded from my phone. Hope the sound is not shrinked too.. 🙁
https://youtu.be/X3URSmcaOLU
2. A song played from begining to the end in full range. Youtube shrinked it to 720p..
https://youtu.be/OkQi7ZFGRtY
Cheers
Sergiu
going to watch them 🙂 Thx m8
by hand, i believe in precision of the machine 🙂 i dont have patience to cut them and i want it to be thinner traces. and i use this printer also for the AMT's and stacked esl tests. so i cant miss it 🙂 once used you cant go back 😉
nice!! thx for the video´s!
the rubbing is indeed very present on piano´s usually when i want to test for distortion or resonances i use piano you will hear them very easy with that. ofc measuring is part 2
Hope you come up with your final version so you can actually enjoy them !
Hello my friend,
Today i tried two different types of zipper design. Of axis seems to be good but on axis it its a no go.
My conclusion, is that all of these measuring tools like REV, or HOLM dont know c..p about measuring this speaker (as seen in my earlyer THD post with 206% THD..🙂)))) ) and this is not the speaker's fault. They just show you if you are in the correct frecv, but if you really want to see them you have to do this off axis with the mic at 45 degr pointed very close to the center of the speaker.. I will make my final ruban for dayli after the off axis frecv response of the speaker as i think this is what the speaker really sings. You cannot hear those huuuge peaks even if you are with the ear in the center of the speaker.😎
Anyway these are the plots with the zipper cuts. The FIRST one is ALL IN type, wich means that the sound comming from the active region of one cil pases insyde the other and vice-versa. From measurements is crap, and subjectivelly speaking, the singer is like outsyde you yard singing with a fence in front of him... 🙂
The SECOND (II from the pic) has 50-50 zipper style, 50% from one cil pases through the other and the other 50% goes in front. AS seen in measurements it has those nasty peaks on axis and off axis so its not so good but subjectivelly it plays pretty well, the voice doesnt have that coloration on the mids perceived as a strong voice (just like the voice is comming from a 15" bass speaker if you know what i mean) instead is just like the real thing. The disatvantage of this kind of zipper design is that is like somehow the projection now its like 50% dissapeared and the dispersion is like atenuated abit compared to the "no cuts" version and i believe that this is because only a small portion of sound from the active region if reflected.
So subjectivelly speaking the cuts are good for making the voice thinner as desired, but if they are too big and paralleled you gained a small sweet spot and if done improprelly they ruine the sweet projection of the speaker and affects the dispersion.
Now i will make the coils for those 4kv, 250gr/sqm folium sheets that i have buyed a month ago.
Cheers
Sergiu
Today i tried two different types of zipper design. Of axis seems to be good but on axis it its a no go.
My conclusion, is that all of these measuring tools like REV, or HOLM dont know c..p about measuring this speaker (as seen in my earlyer THD post with 206% THD..🙂)))) ) and this is not the speaker's fault. They just show you if you are in the correct frecv, but if you really want to see them you have to do this off axis with the mic at 45 degr pointed very close to the center of the speaker.. I will make my final ruban for dayli after the off axis frecv response of the speaker as i think this is what the speaker really sings. You cannot hear those huuuge peaks even if you are with the ear in the center of the speaker.😎
Anyway these are the plots with the zipper cuts. The FIRST one is ALL IN type, wich means that the sound comming from the active region of one cil pases insyde the other and vice-versa. From measurements is crap, and subjectivelly speaking, the singer is like outsyde you yard singing with a fence in front of him... 🙂
The SECOND (II from the pic) has 50-50 zipper style, 50% from one cil pases through the other and the other 50% goes in front. AS seen in measurements it has those nasty peaks on axis and off axis so its not so good but subjectivelly it plays pretty well, the voice doesnt have that coloration on the mids perceived as a strong voice (just like the voice is comming from a 15" bass speaker if you know what i mean) instead is just like the real thing. The disatvantage of this kind of zipper design is that is like somehow the projection now its like 50% dissapeared and the dispersion is like atenuated abit compared to the "no cuts" version and i believe that this is because only a small portion of sound from the active region if reflected.
So subjectivelly speaking the cuts are good for making the voice thinner as desired, but if they are too big and paralleled you gained a small sweet spot and if done improprelly they ruine the sweet projection of the speaker and affects the dispersion.
Now i will make the coils for those 4kv, 250gr/sqm folium sheets that i have buyed a month ago.
Cheers
Sergiu
Attachments
well GJ dude. to bad it did not deliver🙁
But one thing i think must be clear its not holm or rew that cant measure it. its just the ruba that has this response nothing else. and the 200% distortion, is either the ruba or something in between the mic and the program. its not fair to say it does not work. since it does work. And get pretty consequent results. be it shark teeth usually on axis. but i don't have shark teeth on my quads or other designs so. its all in the ruba and or preamp/mic/amplifier
that said , ofc you can be fine with the peaks, especially if you cant hear them. and just build some speakers and enjoy them !! hope to see them soon! 🙂
curious about the heavy material what it does, my heavy papers did not work for me , at least maybe they where not stiff enough
Last edited:
don't know if you have seen this, DIY-Flexible-Printed-Circuits/ and you can usually find the Pyralux sheets on ebay
regards
james
regards
james
Thanks tvi ! I got duch printer the phase 8500 this is how i make my coils to 🙂 pyralux is a bit expensive though, i used the eBay variant . But thanks for the link !!!
Hello my friend,
I supose you are right, it may bee something from the chain, but somthings fishy because off axis i have less dist.. I told you on skype that in the worst case scenario, when membrane rubbing, i had at worst only at peaks 10%.. Now i'm thinking maibe its because of the double coils, who knows. One thing its for shure, that the mic is conected to line in and amp to line out, so as i've seen on the cal files, now i have fewer dist and noise compared to the time when i had my single coil on ruban. Maybe its only a consequence of two coils emiting both on the same surface at the same time. I will see this soon because i still have a single coil ruban vers to compare somewere on the shelf.
Anyway on thing its for shure, that you can only see the frecv resp of this speaker off axis. And i can barelly wait to see the results of that folium.
Cheers my friend
Sergiu
I supose you are right, it may bee something from the chain, but somthings fishy because off axis i have less dist.. I told you on skype that in the worst case scenario, when membrane rubbing, i had at worst only at peaks 10%.. Now i'm thinking maibe its because of the double coils, who knows. One thing its for shure, that the mic is conected to line in and amp to line out, so as i've seen on the cal files, now i have fewer dist and noise compared to the time when i had my single coil on ruban. Maybe its only a consequence of two coils emiting both on the same surface at the same time. I will see this soon because i still have a single coil ruban vers to compare somewere on the shelf.
Anyway on thing its for shure, that you can only see the frecv resp of this speaker off axis. And i can barelly wait to see the results of that folium.
Cheers my friend
Sergiu
At last the glue has dryied. So here we are. Today i will test 1,2 and 3 roman(all of them has a coil with 3 turns and 7 ohms, underhung):
*1 :250gr/ sqm membr, coils are bonded straight on the cilinders, and has double adhesive tape, so an overall lighter coil;
*2:same membr as 1, has coil sticked to a canson paper former, so a heavy coil;
*3: a 225gr/sqm, the foil membrane is now sandwiched between two sheets of paper,coil sticked the same as 2;
All of these foils are usually used as insulators for trafos and have 4kv insulation streght.
The cils are now bonded on 4 cm area instead of directly to the 3 cm coil till now, because this gives better results subjectivelly and in measurements.
Will measure when i get home today.
Cheers
Sergiu
*1 :250gr/ sqm membr, coils are bonded straight on the cilinders, and has double adhesive tape, so an overall lighter coil;
*2:same membr as 1, has coil sticked to a canson paper former, so a heavy coil;
*3: a 225gr/sqm, the foil membrane is now sandwiched between two sheets of paper,coil sticked the same as 2;
All of these foils are usually used as insulators for trafos and have 4kv insulation streght.
The cils are now bonded on 4 cm area instead of directly to the 3 cm coil till now, because this gives better results subjectivelly and in measurements.
Will measure when i get home today.
Cheers
Sergiu
Attachments
Hi Sergiu and Wrine , i keep on reading your posts and thank you for sharing your experiences.
i just come to read the whole linaeum Patent and specially the paragraphs about the cutings in the wings and the coil thanks for speaking of that Sergiu .
So i cut 15X 8mm holes in the center of the coil and 25X6mm holes on each wing close to the coil ( 30%) I don't have any measurements but subjectively the lack of highs has disappeared and there is no more need for an extra supertweeter i would even say that it seems to be more efficient !
I will work about how to measure all this soon .
each wing is CANSON PAPER 160g/m2 47X16 CM
the coil is Double side coper printed board 10turnsX2 = 9 ohms serial /weight 17g
total weight of the 4wings +coil = 60 g
i use elastic suspension with some bracelet wire i don't know what material it is white, thin and strong ... ( silicon? )
i just come to read the whole linaeum Patent and specially the paragraphs about the cutings in the wings and the coil thanks for speaking of that Sergiu .
So i cut 15X 8mm holes in the center of the coil and 25X6mm holes on each wing close to the coil ( 30%) I don't have any measurements but subjectively the lack of highs has disappeared and there is no more need for an extra supertweeter i would even say that it seems to be more efficient !
I will work about how to measure all this soon .
each wing is CANSON PAPER 160g/m2 47X16 CM
the coil is Double side coper printed board 10turnsX2 = 9 ohms serial /weight 17g
total weight of the 4wings +coil = 60 g
i use elastic suspension with some bracelet wire i don't know what material it is white, thin and strong ... ( silicon? )
Attachments
Nice ! Some more tinkerers. Well i got good news for me at least 🙂 i got my printer working again. Bought Some non xerox ink for the colour sticks since i Dont use colour but it must be available. It prints 🙂 the rest where driver problems. So i Will be making Some coils tomorow 🙂
Serg i was thinkimg about using lighter Alu foil as you mentioned , i Will use wider tracks to compensatie a bit for power handling an use 2 coils. I Will be using paper laminated Alu , the Alu is 6 micron Or something (Maybe even less) but it enables me to use fewer tracks and is prints rather Well. But since my magnet structure is less heavy then yours I might end up with low power handling and low output .. Ah well we will see
Nice my friend. Hope to see you back in bussiness soon. I will post my measurements tomorrow. I catched a terrible flu and struggling to make measurements.. 🙁
I'm glad you will use thinner AL. You will have allot of ohms when going underhung. I have 7 ohms from only 3 turns.. I dont think that you will have fewer dB. The conclussion from today's measurements, its that only the weight of the membrane lowers some dB but smoothens the overall frecv resp. Believe me. if you use the same membrane weight you will perceive stronger sound with DUAL coil in paralell (i think its because the lowered impedance). But be aware that the best results (subjectivelly) where gained with paralelled coils in reverse polarity so you should take that into consideration also. Best results in measurements where with coils in series and also in reverse polarity. 😉
Underhung paralell is the way for me now and for my finall version.
Cheers
Sergiu
Parallel yeah 6 dB louder. Since you halve the impedance. In reverse can't add dB only lower big time. If one coil wants to move forward the other wants to go back. I really can't believe that is a benefit in any way. I think you make a mistake there with the polarity. Use the hand rule