Sound quality.
OK,you have done the science,now it`s time to give an honest account of your listening experiences.Using other good speakers you have heard over the years what is your no holds barred opinion of what you now have before you compared to your general knowledge of what an exceptional speaker system should sound like?
OK,you have done the science,now it`s time to give an honest account of your listening experiences.Using other good speakers you have heard over the years what is your no holds barred opinion of what you now have before you compared to your general knowledge of what an exceptional speaker system should sound like?
Great info!!! The design of the baffle is different with mine: it's placed directly on the floor, slightly at an angle, but the height of the baffle is bigger. I was playing around with the wings and expected that removing them would kill the bass response, but in fact it was the mids that dropped out. I have no measurement equipment nor high knowledge, just my ears ;-)
I replaced my cardboard baffles (temp) and they sound much better! So I guess playing around with them also will influence the sound.
By the way, I took the speakers to a local DIY listening day and everybody was extremely impressed by them! Lots of people stopped talking, only listening in disbelief, some shouted in all their happiness that this is what they were waiting for to hear! 2 of them even asked for the link because they wanted to replicate these speakers. So hands up to the designers!!!
I replaced my cardboard baffles (temp) and they sound much better! So I guess playing around with them also will influence the sound.
By the way, I took the speakers to a local DIY listening day and everybody was extremely impressed by them! Lots of people stopped talking, only listening in disbelief, some shouted in all their happiness that this is what they were waiting for to hear! 2 of them even asked for the link because they wanted to replicate these speakers. So hands up to the designers!!!
Hi Bart-Jan.
Your comment "but in fact it was the mids that dropped out" is interesting in the contexts because it indicates that somehow or other changes to the the baffle/wing dimensions could be a way to figure out how to get closer to a true 2nd order acoustic roll off over a larger frequency spectrum and thus get a more linear summation in the cross over region, cf. the quite remarkable deviations from a uniform 2nd order roll off in the charts I have published (perhaps especially the "lumps" in the 1/1 smoothed charts).
Yet, good to hear that your listeners enjoyed the speakers - they truely deserve it.
As for power amplifiers: In the interest of science I hooked my speakers up with my LM3886 based chip-amps/gainclones and listened to that combo for a couple of hours. My impression is that the fairly high damping factor of these amps suit the Manzanitas very well indeed - and no hints of instability were discovered. The highs very a bit more mellow,however, than what the Almarro 318B supplied. The lows are a bit soft with the Quad 303, but - as noted before - musically that combination sings. I have yet to test the Manzanitas with a high power amp with very high damping factor, but that may surface sometime.
Good listening!
Your comment "but in fact it was the mids that dropped out" is interesting in the contexts because it indicates that somehow or other changes to the the baffle/wing dimensions could be a way to figure out how to get closer to a true 2nd order acoustic roll off over a larger frequency spectrum and thus get a more linear summation in the cross over region, cf. the quite remarkable deviations from a uniform 2nd order roll off in the charts I have published (perhaps especially the "lumps" in the 1/1 smoothed charts).
Yet, good to hear that your listeners enjoyed the speakers - they truely deserve it.
As for power amplifiers: In the interest of science I hooked my speakers up with my LM3886 based chip-amps/gainclones and listened to that combo for a couple of hours. My impression is that the fairly high damping factor of these amps suit the Manzanitas very well indeed - and no hints of instability were discovered. The highs very a bit more mellow,however, than what the Almarro 318B supplied. The lows are a bit soft with the Quad 303, but - as noted before - musically that combination sings. I have yet to test the Manzanitas with a high power amp with very high damping factor, but that may surface sometime.
Good listening!
Busch Does Boxes
Hello Barry!
First up... thanks for asking!
Second, wanted to send you a private email but can't find your address.
So... please ping me at jdbusch@windstream.net....
Now getting down to cases... As you know, every year I always bring something different, or at least a substantially updated version of an existing design. And other than one time, it's always been Open Baffle designs. However, so many folks (LSAF & RMAF plus others) have asked me for Open Baffle clones in box form. The big driver for this is WAF & efficiencies high enough to use with low watt "boutique" SET and other integrated amplifiers. (5-25 WPC)
I have decided to take a whack at that goal and over late winter have designed and now building 2 very different box format speakers. Will have both (for better or worse) at LSAF in 3 weeks. Do not have the time now to tell much about the 2 designs other than I think they will be well accepted (I hope?)
Know you were an early Manzanita adaptor but still think you will like what you hear! Look forward to seeing you in Dallas!
Hello Barry!
First up... thanks for asking!
Second, wanted to send you a private email but can't find your address.
So... please ping me at jdbusch@windstream.net....
Now getting down to cases... As you know, every year I always bring something different, or at least a substantially updated version of an existing design. And other than one time, it's always been Open Baffle designs. However, so many folks (LSAF & RMAF plus others) have asked me for Open Baffle clones in box form. The big driver for this is WAF & efficiencies high enough to use with low watt "boutique" SET and other integrated amplifiers. (5-25 WPC)
I have decided to take a whack at that goal and over late winter have designed and now building 2 very different box format speakers. Will have both (for better or worse) at LSAF in 3 weeks. Do not have the time now to tell much about the 2 designs other than I think they will be well accepted (I hope?)
Know you were an early Manzanita adaptor but still think you will like what you hear! Look forward to seeing you in Dallas!
Hi all,
I was wondering if anyone has used an Eminence 15a and the Vifa FR on a smaller baffle than the Ultra? The Ultras as going to be too bog for my listening area and I already have the Eminence 15a pair ready to go.
I realize that this is a similar configuration to the Manzanita CV and John deserves to make money for his time and effort. I was just wondering...
Thanks
I was wondering if anyone has used an Eminence 15a and the Vifa FR on a smaller baffle than the Ultra? The Ultras as going to be too bog for my listening area and I already have the Eminence 15a pair ready to go.
I realize that this is a similar configuration to the Manzanita CV and John deserves to make money for his time and effort. I was just wondering...
Thanks
There is quite a difference in the intrinsic efficiency between the GRS 15 and Emi 15A. Add to that the very different top end roll these two drivers have it would be difficult to mate the Vifa with the Emi. Not to say you can't get the Vifa and Emi to work together, but I fear there would be a lot of crossover work to do it.
John
John
Just a bump to let everyone know the Lone Star Audio Fest (in Dallas) is this weekend.
http://lonestaraudiofest.com/
http://lonestaraudiofest.com/
Thanks John. One other question.
The only 20mH coil I could get here is just under 1ohm DCR, so presumably I'll need to pad the vifa back a little more to match. Will the cap value of 6 (again, had to get 6.2), still be ok if R2 gets out over 6ohm, or will it need to come down to keep the roll-off frequency correct?
Reid
The only 20mH coil I could get here is just under 1ohm DCR, so presumably I'll need to pad the vifa back a little more to match. Will the cap value of 6 (again, had to get 6.2), still be ok if R2 gets out over 6ohm, or will it need to come down to keep the roll-off frequency correct?
Reid
Small tweaks and adjustments
One nice thing about this basic design is it is not super sensitive as to crossover component values. Quality some what though. And with a few extra components, it is easy to tweak to suit the owners tastes and or environmental realities...
You should be fine with what you have as a starting point... As I have noted before, it's handy to start with a bit lower than stated values for the hi pass cap and pad-trap resistors and add to the cap values with inexpensive parallel .1 or .22 high voltage (200-600 V) caps until you get the balance-sound you prefer. Same with the resistors. A few extra of larger values can be easily swapped out to suit. Sometimes you will need to go back and forth between the high pass cap and pad values to get things just right. So for no more than $20 - $40 of spare parts and a few hours of listening you can really get it right for your needs.
The High pass cap range is from around 5.5 - 6.5 MFD
R1 HF trap bypass resistor range can vary from 12-25 ohms.
H.F Pad can range can vary from 7-9 ohms.
Know the above sounds a bit simplistic and redundant, but in the designing world this is usually how it's done! Good luck! John
One nice thing about this basic design is it is not super sensitive as to crossover component values. Quality some what though. And with a few extra components, it is easy to tweak to suit the owners tastes and or environmental realities...
You should be fine with what you have as a starting point... As I have noted before, it's handy to start with a bit lower than stated values for the hi pass cap and pad-trap resistors and add to the cap values with inexpensive parallel .1 or .22 high voltage (200-600 V) caps until you get the balance-sound you prefer. Same with the resistors. A few extra of larger values can be easily swapped out to suit. Sometimes you will need to go back and forth between the high pass cap and pad values to get things just right. So for no more than $20 - $40 of spare parts and a few hours of listening you can really get it right for your needs.
The High pass cap range is from around 5.5 - 6.5 MFD
R1 HF trap bypass resistor range can vary from 12-25 ohms.
H.F Pad can range can vary from 7-9 ohms.
Know the above sounds a bit simplistic and redundant, but in the designing world this is usually how it's done! Good luck! John
Hello,
Nice to see that this interesting thread is still alive! And to add life - hopefully - this little experience: Though the phantom imaging is fairly good as it is, I thought that it might be possible to improve it if the Vifa speaker was moved a little further back - so as to align et acoustic centre with the Peerless woofer. Instead of digging out my my saw and drill I used the miniDSP to delay the Vifa some 5-6 cm. (I bi-amaped it, but retained the passive cross-over network so the only thing the minDSP did was the delay). The result? 2 cm delay was inaudible but 5 cm improved the imaging somewhat..
Another note on components. For a long time I used a 18 mH coil with a dcR of around 0.9 ohms, but thought a lower dcR was worth a try so I got hold of a 20mH/ 0.5 ohmd - and (a little surprisingly?) it added clarity to the lower register. Not much, but it was audible.
Nice to see that this interesting thread is still alive! And to add life - hopefully - this little experience: Though the phantom imaging is fairly good as it is, I thought that it might be possible to improve it if the Vifa speaker was moved a little further back - so as to align et acoustic centre with the Peerless woofer. Instead of digging out my my saw and drill I used the miniDSP to delay the Vifa some 5-6 cm. (I bi-amaped it, but retained the passive cross-over network so the only thing the minDSP did was the delay). The result? 2 cm delay was inaudible but 5 cm improved the imaging somewhat..
Another note on components. For a long time I used a 18 mH coil with a dcR of around 0.9 ohms, but thought a lower dcR was worth a try so I got hold of a 20mH/ 0.5 ohmd - and (a little surprisingly?) it added clarity to the lower register. Not much, but it was audible.
Did you find the passive values working with the MiniDSP then went for passive parts because it achieves a better result than the equivalent electronic XO (I'm not talking of the delay here) ?
If I understand you correctly: No, I found the passive component values by experimentation on the basis of the original design. Of course it would be possible to model the passive cross-over network electronically and use the miniDSP and bi-amping. But I want this speaker to be a "simple" one amplifier pr. channel speaker (Actually I got fed up with the complexity of my Orion speakers!). So I tried the electronic delay to test whether modifying the baffle for a recessed Vifa would be worth while and thus get rid of the electronic delay. If I give it a try I'll post some pictures - but that may take a while.