I will be without akabak for a few days so can't answer the BG20 question right away. But based on Vas of 3.88 cu ft means a big box if you want low bass. A sealed alignment gives 68Hz at 1 cu ft. So I think perhaps 2 cu ft will get circa 50Hz. I also don't know how well a whizzer works behind a K aperture. I think it may sound "cupped" as the HF originates from non pistonic breakup induced source.
Right, as me and many others have noted over time, the less rigid a cab should be with increasing driver Qt to maintain a damped speaker system Q [sysQ].
GM
sounds too big for what it would do - too bad the new BOFU don't have even the motor strength of the old - I don't like their rotting surround anyhow. Can you think of other fullrange which might fit ? - or modest priced woofers which could be augmented with a K-tube on top of the XKi unit? there may be a way to adapt some piezo motor to a K-tube with smooth response using GRS piezo and perhaps a Dremel tool. I might have a GRS KSN1142 knockoff in my pile. The phase rod/plug seemed problematic on the original product - I got one reasonably smooth on a 5x15" horn with a crossover and trap http://www.parts-express.com/grs-pz1142-piezo-bullet-horn-driver-similar-to-ksn1142a--292-448
ah - remembered - got some Gollehon radial horns which "liked" the original KSN1142 (been 13 years since I played with that setup)
ah - remembered - got some Gollehon radial horns which "liked" the original KSN1142 (been 13 years since I played with that setup)
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freddi if strong enough this one keeps driver and XO setup simple, 8" full range 93dB no whizzer FF225WK Qts 0,35 Vas 2.04 cu ft https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/approx-8-fullrange/fostex-ff225wk-8-full-range/
thanks - price is creeping up on those - don't like foam surrounds although probably will outlast me - I've got one FE206EN and it needs no helper tweeter - also W8-1772 but think 1772 needs a sizable cabinet compared to Beta8cx. I have a BG20 currently in a "fake Druid" which is around 1.3 cubic foot and that seems good for the cheap and cheerful BG20 (and simmed ok in HR)
I made a set of these MLTL some years ago for the original Eminence B102 and APT50
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/252559-bg20-fake-druid.html
I made a set of these MLTL some years ago for the original Eminence B102 and APT50
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/252559-bg20-fake-druid.html
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XKi likes low Vas drivers. Given that good 8in full range drivers cost upwards $100+ seems that the Beta 8cx and D280Ti combo for $110 is one of the best performance to price ratio with 94dB sensitivity and real reach to 20kHz with no breakup. Look for pro audio drivers. OTOH, the little RS100 sure did well.
How about Visaton's BG17 (which is utterly dissimilar to the BG20) ?
Fs is high at 120Hz but Vas is low and Qts is not unreasonable.
I have some of these in little sealed boxes and they make a ton of noise with very graceful overload behaviour. If an XKi could get improved bass and limit excursion it might make a real tiny terror.
Fs is high at 120Hz but Vas is low and Qts is not unreasonable.
I have some of these in little sealed boxes and they make a ton of noise with very graceful overload behaviour. If an XKi could get improved bass and limit excursion it might make a real tiny terror.
That looks promising - the Qts is higher and Vas is 1/3 cubic ft. Specs say 1cu ft vented box hits 73Hz which is good for a lot of things. This may work but the whizzer is still an unknown quantity.
However, I think I may have just found the bomb driver for the XKi. The PRV 8MR600NDY. Only goes up to 11khz but that is fine for a lot of music, Nd motor, cast basket, paper cone, no whizzer, small Vas, moderate Qts of 0.56 for deeper bass than the fs allows, 96dB sensitive, 300 watts rms power capable, low distortion motor, hits 55Hz in a 0.85cubic ft vented box. A bit pricey at $128 but I don't think there is another product out there with same capability. This thing would tear your face off at 300 watts if 96dB sensitive.
http://www.parts-express.com/prv-audio-8mr600-ndy-8-neodymium-midbass-midrange-woofer-8-ohm--294-2715
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re: whizzers and Karlson, Fane's double-whizzer cone sounds very good midrange and treble-wise in a Karlson 12 and my Karlsonator 12. Nirvana's Super 10 was very good in the Karlsonator 12 other than the Nirvana's inherent ragged top - - FE206EN did well in a 1955 Karlsonette/K12 but I did not like 1772 in K12 as well as the Fostex. 1772 sounded better in a little K called SK8. BetsyK sounded pretty good in K12 but lacked the midrange strength (and perhaps a peak) from the Fostex. BG20 sounded nice enough in a K12. BetsyK sounded good in Weltersys's dad's 8 inch coupler loosely based on a K12.
I have a number of pairs of coax designed by Eminence for pro use but don't think there are any being sold currently. Beta10cx, although will sound probably more mellow than some fullrange, should play nice with modest compression drivers such ASD1001 and PRV's D280Ti. There are also Mylar type diaphragm compression drivers which some may like such as the B52. (Its probably ~like a DE25 but higher resonance) D280Ti has a nice treble.
I have a number of pairs of coax designed by Eminence for pro use but don't think there are any being sold currently. Beta10cx, although will sound probably more mellow than some fullrange, should play nice with modest compression drivers such ASD1001 and PRV's D280Ti. There are also Mylar type diaphragm compression drivers which some may like such as the B52. (Its probably ~like a DE25 but higher resonance) D280Ti has a nice treble.
Sounds great, but a bit pricey and scarce in OZ
What about the Dayton PA drivers eg. PA200-8 for woofer use with a piezo, or a PA130-8 for a killer tiny monitor ?
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The XKi seems to be a bit like the original flavor Karlsons in that it likes strong motors. It seems like an excellent way to go especially for PA or high volume use when you need relatively deep bass in a small box at high spl. It has excellent excursion control. For higher Qts drivers and home use, the (now archaic, lol) Karlsonator might be more satisfying and forgiving.
Subjectively and generally speaking, I like low Q drivers in ML-TL or reflex boxes (or horns), and mid Q I prefer with a Voigt pipe type loading. I think the same may hold true for K derivatives, as this is the difference in the rear loading.
I wonder what John Karlson would think about these new developments??
Subjectively and generally speaking, I like low Q drivers in ML-TL or reflex boxes (or horns), and mid Q I prefer with a Voigt pipe type loading. I think the same may hold true for K derivatives, as this is the difference in the rear loading.
I wonder what John Karlson would think about these new developments??
Sounds great, but a bit pricey and scarce in OZ
What about the Dayton PA drivers eg. PA200-8 for woofer use with a piezo, or a PA130-8 for a killer tiny monitor ?
I don't have Akabak for next few days as I recover from hard disk crash. I suspect the Daytons would work very well. Most PA drivers will like the XKi. If you can get Daytons in OZ you should be able to get the PRV's as Parts Express sells them. Unless you have a Dayton dealer in OZ? Price is high but with full Nd motor - compare to Tang Band W8-1772 and price seems quite reasonable - and given the high power and super high sensitivity - with low Vas I think this driver could be the next full range sensation if people would get over fact it is called a mid range. This is a perfect example of a driver that can use a small supertweeter first order high passed at 10kHz. A modified GRS piezo horn that has 105dB sensitivity and is flat from 2khz on up may just be the ticket. You can also plop down dollars for fancy bullet CD tweeters but I think it's not needed.
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It's what I had found out with my mini-SK8 koncept. It really was just an SK8 with reduced rear-chamber volume. Not meant to do bass though. The rear Vb~16L was more then enough for drivers like 8CX (IIRC) and plenty of B&C 8". WinISD BP6 simulation would not let me have a scenario where any kind of bass under ~80Hz "looked pretty", but we know it's not the ideal tool to sim that.
I wonder if my off-spec Faital Pro 6FE100 would do alright in a foam-core mSK8/XKi type? It has lower Cms, so Fs and Qt are naturally way up... I blasted them with some 20Hz for hours on end to no avail; I could have cooked an egg in that nice inverted dustcap.
A quick sim doesn't look promising, but a lossy cab material might help things with the high Qt as mentioned previously in this thread.Factory spec:
Vance Dickason in Voice Coil magazine:
My measured specs (very close on both drivers):
Fs = 86.19 Hz
Re = 5.60 ohms[dc]
Le = 251.23 uH
L2 = 299.61 uH
R2 = 8.71 ohms
Qt = 0.92
Qes = 1.00
Qms = 11.00
Mms = 14.39 grams
Rms = 0.707299 kg/s
Cms = 0.000239 m/N
Vas = 6.86 liters
Sd= 142.93 cm^2
Bl = 6.585896 Tm
ETA = 0.42 %
Lp(2.83V/1m) = 89.84 dB
Added Mass Method:
Added mass = 37.00 grams
Diameter= 13.49 cm
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XKi - FE85
X, Finally got around to putting these together. In the end a very simple build with 2 pieces scored and folded (plus the aperture) per box. And quite a cute look.
The sound unfortunately is not so good. Running full range with no sub assistance near-field there is a real lack of bass and therefore balance - to the point of being unlistenable for me. I listen regularly to 0.4x Vifa Karlsonators and they sound enormous in comparison. As per the photo, there is a obviously a significant physical size difference, but the sonic difference seems even greater.
I tried them crossed 1st order at 150 Hz to a small sub and while this improved things, it seemed to highlight harshness in the top end. It think it might take some clever use of a dsp, which I don't have yet, to get these things sounding good.
The HiVi B3N hole pattern is the same as the FE85 and so I did a swap with one box. The difference compared to the FE85 was stunning - much fuller and balanced sound. While the "XKi B3N" was not as quite as good as the Karlsonator, certainly listenable, near-field without a helper sub.
So, overall a little disappointing as far as the FE85 goes, but I wouldn't mind pursuing the B3N further. Should it be suited to a XKi alignment? and what would be optimum enclosure dimensions?
Cheers!
Here is the plan:
Good luck and let me know how it goes.
X, Finally got around to putting these together. In the end a very simple build with 2 pieces scored and folded (plus the aperture) per box. And quite a cute look.
The sound unfortunately is not so good. Running full range with no sub assistance near-field there is a real lack of bass and therefore balance - to the point of being unlistenable for me. I listen regularly to 0.4x Vifa Karlsonators and they sound enormous in comparison. As per the photo, there is a obviously a significant physical size difference, but the sonic difference seems even greater.
I tried them crossed 1st order at 150 Hz to a small sub and while this improved things, it seemed to highlight harshness in the top end. It think it might take some clever use of a dsp, which I don't have yet, to get these things sounding good.
The HiVi B3N hole pattern is the same as the FE85 and so I did a swap with one box. The difference compared to the FE85 was stunning - much fuller and balanced sound. While the "XKi B3N" was not as quite as good as the Karlsonator, certainly listenable, near-field without a helper sub.
So, overall a little disappointing as far as the FE85 goes, but I wouldn't mind pursuing the B3N further. Should it be suited to a XKi alignment? and what would be optimum enclosure dimensions?
Cheers!
Attachments
Sorry about how it's not working out. I think we can safely say that the Fountek FE8x is not compatible with XKi. Thanks for trying it out though.
Any thoughts on XKi enclosure dimensions for the HiVi BN3 in a XKi? http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/297-428-hi-vi-b3n-specifications-44339.pdf
That is interstimg that the b3n sounds good - it may be that for small drivers a high Qts is good as it allows deeper bass. The TC9FD has about same Qts. I don't have akabak for another week so can't run sims for you. If it sounds good you may have run into a good combination. If you can make a measurement that would be good. The aluminum cone on the Founteks don't seem to work well. I wonder if it is partly due to sound from back chamber coupling back out the cone as it is so thin.