for most room, a saxophone player with a bass player, a drum and and a trumpet playing the theme would sound irritating, it would be too loud if your too close to the band in a small room. why do you say no? I'm a sax player, and hell, even just a sax is too loud if your placed too close to it.
after 5 minutes, you would find the sound way too loud
after 5 minutes, you would find the sound way too loud
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Agree you can make your sax unbearable in a small room if you wanted, my response was not to this, it was to say that a small jazz ensemble don't have to sound unbearable in a small space, i have listened to and was present on more than a few recording sessions and loud live is way different from loud amplified.....
Loud live is way more tolerable ....🙂
Loud live is way more tolerable ....🙂
We were a four piece acoustic jazz, drums, piano, bass, sax and practiced in our living room. Living rooms were a bit bigger in those days. You do not have to kick the drum that hard. You could also place a towel in it.
how loud (DB) are we talking about for a UNamplified quartet?
If you have efficient speakers in the 95 db range, any decent 10 W amp will do 105 db without much strain.
Is it really the amplifier the faults or more the efficiency of the speakers?
Both; on the quality of the drivers in their ability to handle high SPLs, and on the amp's capability to produce high instantaneous peak watts into lower impedances and @ all audio frequencies of the full human range (music/audio spectrum).
Without strain and distortion; with ease and smoothness (pleasant musicality) @ both low and high volume levels. ...With verve and transparent clarity; front and back in the soundstage (depth). ...And with complete micro and macro dynamics.
Without strain and distortion; with ease and smoothness (pleasant musicality) @ both low and high volume levels. ...With verve and transparent clarity; front and back in the soundstage (depth). ...And with complete micro and macro dynamics.
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Amplified is a problem, amplifier loud is not , no where , is it even close to live unamplified loud, which is easy to do in a reasonable size room /hall. Yesterday at practice i had asked to have the house speakers turned almost off , they were destroying the sound when Miss Diva wailed.
.🙂
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Still using that noisy dCS DAC then? Agree - if you amplify noise added by the source, add more noise too from the amp, amplified is way less tolerable than live. Start paying attention to noise though (and the source is the place where the low hanging fruit is) and this starts to change - GIGO.
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Long thread… haven't read it all but here's my 2¢ on soundstage. I've had good speakers in bad systems that failed to give me a proper realistic image of the recording event. I've had good electronics and bad speakers do the same. When I got the synergy between components right I began hearing into the music, being enveloped by it.
The original speakers that began this were Spica TC-50's with a db systems db-1b preamp and db-6am power amps and my Revox A77 half track. It wasn't until I got my Well Tempered Turntable around 1990 and a Conrad Johnson PV-5 that I was treated to a deeper, wider and more realistic soundstage. It whetted my whistle for more.
After getting the last LP Labs carbon fiber arm for the WTT, and the black platter and Marigo Well Damped Clamp along the way, I moving up to the Spica TC-60's. Around that time I started using Synergistic Research Alpha Quad Active speaker cables and both Kaleidoscope and Looking Glass Phase 1 and 2 active interconnects and was treated with tremendously realistic soundstage and pin point imaging. Spicas are just magical speakers - I can tell when one is 1/2" out of position.
We moved to a larger space and the TC-60's were struggling to fill it so I lucked on a slightly used pair of Eminent Technology LFT-8b's. A few more tweaks to the WTT and a Benz Glider and the main rig performs very, very well. Dynamics, imaging and soundstage to boot. Never thought I'd have a system that conveys so much.
To my ear, a system must provide a realistic 3D image of the event - anything less is just sad. People these days say they are music lovers but they listen thru iPod docks. They don't know what they are missing… until they come over for a visit.
Long thread… haven't read it all but here's my 2¢ on soundstage. I've had good speakers in bad systems that failed to give me a proper realistic image of the recording event. I've had good electronics and bad speakers do the same. When I got the synergy between components right I began hearing into the music, being enveloped by it.
The original speakers that began this were Spica TC-50's with a db systems db-1b preamp and db-6am power amps and my Revox A77 half track. It wasn't until I got my Well Tempered Turntable around 1990 and a Conrad Johnson PV-5 that I was treated to a deeper, wider and more realistic soundstage. It whetted my whistle for more.
After getting the last LP Labs carbon fiber arm for the WTT, and the black platter and Marigo Well Damped Clamp along the way, I moving up to the Spica TC-60's. Around that time I started using Synergistic Research Alpha Quad Active speaker cables and both Kaleidoscope and Looking Glass Phase 1 and 2 active interconnects and was treated with tremendously realistic soundstage and pin point imaging. Spicas are just magical speakers - I can tell when one is 1/2" out of position.
We moved to a larger space and the TC-60's were struggling to fill it so I lucked on a slightly used pair of Eminent Technology LFT-8b's. A few more tweaks to the WTT and a Benz Glider and the main rig performs very, very well. Dynamics, imaging and soundstage to boot. Never thought I'd have a system that conveys so much.
To my ear, a system must provide a realistic 3D image of the event - anything less is just sad. People these days say they are music lovers but they listen thru iPod docks. They don't know what they are missing… until they come over for a visit.
Good music links, thanks for that, a.wayne ... 🙂
Amplifier loud does do live sound loud, but the distortion elements have to be got under control - and these are to be found everywhere in normal systems ... the big hurdle is eliminating every last one of them, one after the other. I have had the situation, many times, where there was just one significant problem area remaining - and it was killing the sound quality, stone dead - for me at least ... 😀
You know you've arrived when you can turn the volume up and up, and it never goes sour, never loses its composure - this is when you wish you had more turning room in that volume knob ... 😛
The amp and source have to be in step, in quality terms - for example, the amplifier going louder cleanly reveals all too obviously problems in the source, as Richard states.
A good holographic/dimensional/realistic soundstage is a clean soundstage.
And in order to be clean it requires no spider webs inside the low level audio signals of the analog and digital preamp stages. ...And well separated from each other and from any external/internal contamination.
And in order to be clean it requires no spider webs inside the low level audio signals of the analog and digital preamp stages. ...And well separated from each other and from any external/internal contamination.
Me tinks all that marco polo smog and snail ingestion is finally getting to you Brax, hi-fi cant compare to live and no its not because of the dac , even that special imaginative one in your cortex wont make it happen ....
🙂
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What is interesting, is that so many audiophiles are quite determinedly pessimistic about achieving truly convincing sound - they almost want it to be that the goal can never be achieved. Perhaps they have spent a lot of money and effort in striving towards it, and the ends of the rainbow just seem to get further away each time - disappointment after subtle disappointment wears them down ...
The good news is that those end goals are most certainly there, and are very much worth striving for - it's quite an amazing place to be, 🙂. If you read between the lines, quite a number of people get there at times - using their own special techniques, approaches ... which means it's always available for the next person to discover it ... 😉
The good news is that those end goals are most certainly there, and are very much worth striving for - it's quite an amazing place to be, 🙂. If you read between the lines, quite a number of people get there at times - using their own special techniques, approaches ... which means it's always available for the next person to discover it ... 😉
Here's the main thing with most audio people (audiophiles and nuts) Frank:
It's not what they do, it's what they can do.
I have this, I'm using this, I own this, I've heard this before, ... but I cannot stand loud music for more than two minutes, at max.
...I'm just too old for this, and I mellowed out with age; @ lowering the master volume level control, with wisdom. 🙂
Anyway, I've been at so many rock music concerts when I was young (on drugs) that I now don't have a good hearing at all. ...But I still want those $300,000/pair loudspeakers, that $100,000 turntable (without the tonearm and cartridge and phono stage and RCM), and that Trinity DAC and Transport.
Oh, I need cables to match too.
Maybe, just maybe, the total percentage of people who are listening to beautiful live music (forget about rock and disco), is 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the total population in El Salvador?
It's not what they do, it's what they can do.
I have this, I'm using this, I own this, I've heard this before, ... but I cannot stand loud music for more than two minutes, at max.
...I'm just too old for this, and I mellowed out with age; @ lowering the master volume level control, with wisdom. 🙂
Anyway, I've been at so many rock music concerts when I was young (on drugs) that I now don't have a good hearing at all. ...But I still want those $300,000/pair loudspeakers, that $100,000 turntable (without the tonearm and cartridge and phono stage and RCM), and that Trinity DAC and Transport.
Oh, I need cables to match too.
Maybe, just maybe, the total percentage of people who are listening to beautiful live music (forget about rock and disco), is 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of the total population in El Salvador?
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Truely convincing is not live , its impossible for any hi-fi system to sound like a symphony , reasonabliy convincing , yes , but not real. Now a regular PA BAND PERFORMANCE of their favorite rock group , yes ! seeing this is not really live music , what it is , is the over amplification of musicians playing their favorite song, this you can convincingly replicate via Hi-fi, because in the end , that concert is nothing more than a glorified hi-fi playback system.
Just saying ... 🙂
Just saying ... 🙂
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Yep - that's coz being an audiophile is an 'Infinite Game' (see the book 'Finite and Infinite Games' by James Carse). Its played for the purpose of continuing. An arrival at the destination would totally scupper it and imply no further upgrades were ever possible or required - the disposable income would have to be henceforth spent on music. Horror of horrors!
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