Thanks Freddi: but which David? And what is a WT3?...I'm second in line to the greatest audio Neanderthal there is! I can't understand most of the abbreviated terms and references on this site!!!! But I shall not be deterred...........the circular saw is poised....? (LoL!) If I can make BiB for Fe 167e with a circular saw, a plastic straight-edge etc...I can do anything! Just advise me, what's the optimum measurements..I'm ready to go: cut & hack; slash & tear! Could be new brand born here!? (LoL..again.) I had no idea single driver/FR stuff could be so perplexing! There's so much maths and serious theory....you guys must get sick to death of us idiots...maybe that's why I get little response? Hey, I'm Australian..we enjoy putting ourselves (and others!) 'down' and feeding our paranoia???!
Regards: Dave
Regards: Dave
"David" = Commonsense's David Dicks and "WT3" = Parts Express Woofer Tester 3. Smith & Larson have the original tester but WT3 is affordable and fast (about 1 second to gather Thiele & Small Qes, Qms, fs and Le parameters and another second to get Vas either from adding mass to the cone or putting the driver into a sealed box)
WT3 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=390-804
Assuming there's not much difference between units in production, perhaps a few Audio Nirvana owners will have access to automated testers or manually take and contribute parameters so cabinet types can be confidently suggested.
If guessing correctly, I don't believe David Dicks sees much merit in back loaded horns nor worries much about parameters.
(I just throw things in old Karlson couplers)
WT3 http://www.parts-express.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?Partnumber=390-804
Assuming there's not much difference between units in production, perhaps a few Audio Nirvana owners will have access to automated testers or manually take and contribute parameters so cabinet types can be confidently suggested.
If guessing correctly, I don't believe David Dicks sees much merit in back loaded horns nor worries much about parameters.
(I just throw things in old Karlson couplers)
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I own a set of Audio Nirvana 10" pressed steel framed full range drivers .
At first I built the 2.8 cabinets recommended by David, using 20mm MDF to me they were awful. So I built the same using 20mm Marine ply, they were better but I was far from happy. When visiting Aussie I saw this bamboo ply at a flooring supplier and was impressed by its weight, well formed cross grained solid splinter free construction, then I knew this is it.
Back in NZ I contacted our local supplier, he had a sheet for NZ$140, it was not a full 1220x2440 and I could only achieve 2.6 cubic foot.
What a success, it is the most beautiful sound I have ever heard from speakers.
All I can say is now I know why they make guitars from ply and not MDF.
I have tried Goodmans 12" 201 full range speakers in the 2.8 Marine ply boxes, they are nowhere near the Audio Nirvana 10"drivers, actually they sounded feeble.
Cheers,
Andries.
At first I built the 2.8 cabinets recommended by David, using 20mm MDF to me they were awful. So I built the same using 20mm Marine ply, they were better but I was far from happy. When visiting Aussie I saw this bamboo ply at a flooring supplier and was impressed by its weight, well formed cross grained solid splinter free construction, then I knew this is it.
Back in NZ I contacted our local supplier, he had a sheet for NZ$140, it was not a full 1220x2440 and I could only achieve 2.6 cubic foot.
What a success, it is the most beautiful sound I have ever heard from speakers.
All I can say is now I know why they make guitars from ply and not MDF.
I have tried Goodmans 12" 201 full range speakers in the 2.8 Marine ply boxes, they are nowhere near the Audio Nirvana 10"drivers, actually they sounded feeble.
Cheers,
Andries.
Measured specs
I measured both units I have, as in a pair. They measured within 1% of each other, BUT they are so far off published manufacturors specs, I will not list them here. That's because 1) I have nothing against the guy, and 2) maybe my pair are an anomoly. There's not a box, as in enclosure, I can build that these will work in. Maybe that's why there has been some previous discussion as to using these in an open baffle (or front horn loaded, open back).
Anyone who actually owns a pair of the Super Cast Frame 10, and has tested them, feel free to contact me for comparisons.
I measured both units I have, as in a pair. They measured within 1% of each other, BUT they are so far off published manufacturors specs, I will not list them here. That's because 1) I have nothing against the guy, and 2) maybe my pair are an anomoly. There's not a box, as in enclosure, I can build that these will work in. Maybe that's why there has been some previous discussion as to using these in an open baffle (or front horn loaded, open back).
Anyone who actually owns a pair of the Super Cast Frame 10, and has tested them, feel free to contact me for comparisons.
that's good tracking between units - let me know by "yea"/"kinda" or PM if the cast frame specs are similar to my stamped frame 10
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4056/ts1aan10uj4.gif
http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4056/ts1aan10uj4.gif
what's the accuracy of a human operator with ac voltmeter and a function generator (some add oscilloscope and or frequency counter to above) when gathering Thiele-Small parameters? To my limited knowledge, Smith & Larson had the first device named "Woofer Tester" and still make them - John Murphy came up with a very fast tester (~ one second on old Celeron) sold through Parts Express at a modest price which seems to give repeatable data.
if an Audio Nirvana or whatever speaker is way off from advertised parameters then the end user may have to either disregard filter theory or design an enclosure dedicated to data on their particular units. In practice a speaker with bright mid and highs may to some degree mask high Qts, or a speaker with low Qes (but having other rolloffs) may sound bland/dull.
I have Peavey 18s so far off in spec that they're only suitable for open baffle - Fs and Qes high, spider stiff. I tend to worry about extremely high Qes cases - can that indicate the magnet didn't take a full charge? are the magnets inferior from the getgo? Cheap woofers and compression drivers from China have ferrite magnets which weigh a lot but don't have much power.
with free use of programs like ARTA & HolmImpulse, inexpensive mixers with phantom power, inexpensive mics, plus the Woofer Testers (or home made jigs), hobbyists can do something to evaluate drivers and situations.
(perhaps a reader has both LMS and WT3 to compare)
measuring parameters
Measuring Loudspeaker Driver Parameters
if an Audio Nirvana or whatever speaker is way off from advertised parameters then the end user may have to either disregard filter theory or design an enclosure dedicated to data on their particular units. In practice a speaker with bright mid and highs may to some degree mask high Qts, or a speaker with low Qes (but having other rolloffs) may sound bland/dull.
I have Peavey 18s so far off in spec that they're only suitable for open baffle - Fs and Qes high, spider stiff. I tend to worry about extremely high Qes cases - can that indicate the magnet didn't take a full charge? are the magnets inferior from the getgo? Cheap woofers and compression drivers from China have ferrite magnets which weigh a lot but don't have much power.
with free use of programs like ARTA & HolmImpulse, inexpensive mixers with phantom power, inexpensive mics, plus the Woofer Testers (or home made jigs), hobbyists can do something to evaluate drivers and situations.
(perhaps a reader has both LMS and WT3 to compare)
measuring parameters
Measuring Loudspeaker Driver Parameters
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here's a comparison of WT3 to LMS
WT3 Measurements and Analysis — Reviews and News from Audioholics
WT3 Measurements and Analysis — Reviews and News from Audioholics
Super Cast 10 inch
Hi everyone:
I have a pair of these and dropped them into a speaker tester to check out the specs...and the system crashed and has not been able to be re-started! Not a good sign??? Anyway, I've gotta just go for it! And, in this thread we have been discussing the normal 10 inch and I almost starting cutting the timber for the cabinets when I was kindly shown the error of my judgment. Has anyone some suggestions about cabinet specs that could be an improvement over stock plans that come with the drivers? In earlier discussions on this thread a couple of options were mentioned and these are only slightly different than the stock plans, albeit for the standard drivers. The Super Cast 10 inch could perform better in a more optioned deliberate cabinet rather than generic. Anybody, without pointing at people, have any ideas? I mean, a ML-TL would be nice. On Frugal there's a few particularly elegant designs for Alpair 10's....and a Jaguar! What could be done?
Thanks: Dave
Hi everyone:
I have a pair of these and dropped them into a speaker tester to check out the specs...and the system crashed and has not been able to be re-started! Not a good sign??? Anyway, I've gotta just go for it! And, in this thread we have been discussing the normal 10 inch and I almost starting cutting the timber for the cabinets when I was kindly shown the error of my judgment. Has anyone some suggestions about cabinet specs that could be an improvement over stock plans that come with the drivers? In earlier discussions on this thread a couple of options were mentioned and these are only slightly different than the stock plans, albeit for the standard drivers. The Super Cast 10 inch could perform better in a more optioned deliberate cabinet rather than generic. Anybody, without pointing at people, have any ideas? I mean, a ML-TL would be nice. On Frugal there's a few particularly elegant designs for Alpair 10's....and a Jaguar! What could be done?
Thanks: Dave
ROTFLMAO! So far out of spec it crashed the program?! 
On a more serious note, have you listened to them to confirm they're basically OK?
Assuming these are as far out of spec as some of there other drivers and assuming that their plan's designations are in ft^3, then it looks like their 13.6 (ft^3) tuned to Fs seems a reasonable choice for a MLTL.
If not, what's the largest HWD dims you can tolerate? For sure they're not going to work in any of the markaudio cab designs.
GM
On a more serious note, have you listened to them to confirm they're basically OK?
Assuming these are as far out of spec as some of there other drivers and assuming that their plan's designations are in ft^3, then it looks like their 13.6 (ft^3) tuned to Fs seems a reasonable choice for a MLTL.
If not, what's the largest HWD dims you can tolerate? For sure they're not going to work in any of the markaudio cab designs.
GM
Hi there GM: thanks for your thoughts. The plans suggest around 150 litres..which is big! If we need to go bigger, I'm not afraid after all: (sorry about this Godzilla!)...bigger is better! My friend, I can tolerate any size...now....as I have a BiB with Fostex Fe167e (which continue to amaze me)...I guess we can jiggle it around a bit to make it look elegant! The plans call for a hole in the front panel, but not a port with an attached tube. So they understand that will need to tune these to particular rooms. Scottmoose had a picture and specs earlier in this thread for the standard 10 inch and that looked very nice. So GM, the short answer: I think I'm ready to try anything!
Thanks and Kind Regards: dave
Thanks and Kind Regards: dave
Greets!
Well, between the specs disparity measured on some other models and most notably this observation, then with no specs I don't know what to tell you other than either pick a size and tune it as best you can by ear if you've no way to measure it or put it on an OB and add a woofer/sub system to it.
WRT Scott's "There's not a box, as in enclosure, I can build that these will work in.", all point source drivers can be made to work in a TL, though not necessarily with the desired gain BW, but with no specs this basically boils down to making a ~aperiodic cab of the largest acceptable dims.
GM
Well, between the specs disparity measured on some other models and most notably this observation, then with no specs I don't know what to tell you other than either pick a size and tune it as best you can by ear if you've no way to measure it or put it on an OB and add a woofer/sub system to it.
WRT Scott's "There's not a box, as in enclosure, I can build that these will work in.", all point source drivers can be made to work in a TL, though not necessarily with the desired gain BW, but with no specs this basically boils down to making a ~aperiodic cab of the largest acceptable dims.
GM
Sans specs. (wish Scott had posted them -an abberation? Possibly, but if they're v. close to each other the likelihood is minimal) I'm with GM: you'll probably just have to pick as big a box as you can stomach and go aperiodic. If you wanted to be ironic, I suppose you could use CSA's 5.6 or 13.6 as the basis.
It's a pity really -I'd actually like to design something for them, but there are too many questions hanging over the accuracy of the published specs.
It's a pity really -I'd actually like to design something for them, but there are too many questions hanging over the accuracy of the published specs.
Thanks GM and Scottmoose: I have a fairly large front room anyway...where the majority of my gear is located. There's currently a nice pair of BiB in there that are simply gorgeous!!!....So with regard to the AN Super Cast 10's, I'll increase the size of the specs that came with the drivers by somewhere between 10 to 20%...and report back. I have certainly learnt a lot from this thread and pass on my particular thanks to you all.
I'll report back and deliver a picture. Hey I could make some really broad OB's (as GM suggests) and make them look like those Balinese room dividers, paint leafy pictures on them, fill the room with palms, buy some rattan furniture...and gain a whole lifestyle!
Kind REgards: Dave
I'll report back and deliver a picture. Hey I could make some really broad OB's (as GM suggests) and make them look like those Balinese room dividers, paint leafy pictures on them, fill the room with palms, buy some rattan furniture...and gain a whole lifestyle!
Kind REgards: Dave
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