Note: Thread title changed.
Reading what many people in audio wrote on the subject of loudspeaker design (Carlsson, Beveridge, Moulton and Linkwitz were my main inspirations) I came to the conclusion that the real issue is that loudspeakers and room form one system.
Recently I had an impression that this I also a view of gedlee (Dr Earl Geddes) when he wrote that the most important parts of his book are those concerning waveguides and room acoustics ("Don't read the stuff on non-linearity, but fully grasp the chapter on waveguides. Thats what I would say today.That and room acoustic")
Later I came to believe that what Dr Geddes writes on the topic of room reflections is in the end of the day the same thing that Carlsson, Beveridge or Moulton and also Linkwitz have written on the subject. And that in their designs they wanted to achieve the same end - to eliminate the detrimental effect of room reflections.
And yet their designs are so much different!
Apparently there are many ways to achieve the same. Linkwitz’s experience with subjective evaluation of his own an yet very different dipole and omni designs confirmed this for me.
I have very unusual loudspeakers which I have built some time ago with those room-speaker interface things in mind. These are very short omnidirectional loudspeakers. They are just 20 cm high and have 8 inches wide range driver on top and firing upwards.
The loudspeakers are to work on the floor – the driver is only 20 cm above the floor – and against the wall.
In this positioning they happen to be quite similar to the late Stig Carlsson designs (carlssonplanet.com, but the Carlssons are two-way and much more complicated because of that) but were not inspired by them.
I didn’t know the Carlssons when I was building these and my first and main aim was to eliminate the detrimental effect of early floor and ceiling reflections without resorting to unavailable true linesource (like Beveridge)
The second aim was to build loudspeaker least visually obtrusive, loudspeaker that would be practically invisible in the listening room (which in may case at the time was also a living room). Perhaps it was even equally important goal.
But frankly speaking I wasn’t thinking a lot and I think now that I really didn’t know what I was doing
😉 and still I don’t – I have no technical background – and it was and it is all mostly intuitive.
🙂
But the outcome appeared to be quite satisfying. This is still work in progress. Achilles heel of the loudspeakers are 8 inches Fostex wide range drivers which have major resonant problems in the break-up area. Out of the box they were literally howling at me. After some driver-mutilating (i.e. tweaking) I can say that these problems are only partially solved for the time being and I am looking for a different driver
Soon I will have a new listening room that is 350 cm wide and 550 cm long. Not too big and not the best proportions but I can arrange it specifically for audio purposes.
I am considering positioning the speakers against the opposite longer walls (scheme attached). Stereo basis would be 330 cm. The listener is to be located 200 cm from stereo basis, 250 cm from both speakers
All this with the questions of minimizing early reflections in mind and particularly with what Dr. Geddes has written on this forum.
A big thanks goes to Dr Geddes! 🙂
To my not very big surprise the resulting set up happens to be very much like Beveridge positioning of his line source electrostatics.
The positioning would give very early reflections (VER) <1 ms from adjacent wall. I hope that they would not be strong enough to become audible problem because the Fostex is quite beaming (I don’t know for sure but 8-inchers are typically 7-8 dB down at 1 kHz at 75-90 degrees and 12-15 dB down at 2 kHz). I am also considering using small Carlsson style absorbers effective for midrange and high frequencies as an option.
Apart from those very early (and hopefully low in level) VER I expect that:
- significant reflections off the adjacent wall would not reach the listener
- floor reflection would not reach the listener
- first reflections off the front wall and off the back wall would reach the listener 9.3 ms after the first wavefront
- first reflections off opposite walls would reach the listener 8.3 ms after the first wavefront
- first reflections off the ceiling would reach the listener 8.8 ms after the first wavefront (ear at height of 90 cm, ceiling at height of 300 cm)
It seems that apart from those earliest reflections <1 ms all other reflections are delayed more than 8 ms and caught by proximity (Hass) effect.
And all this in a relatively small listening room. The bigger the better.
Also I am considering using some wide band absorbers to reduce the reverb after first 50 ms as Moulton recommends.
What do You think? Any suggestions? Ideas? Your own unusual setups?
best,
graaf