Not exactly.
The jitter is undoubtedly a timing error since the clock edges move, i.e. the distance between one cycle and the other is different instead of being constant.
The same in the phase noise perspective, since we are in the frequency domain the error is detected at zero crossing (phase).
In both perpectives the reference is time so they are timing errors.
To measure the timing error as distorsion you need an instrument with a time base much more accurate than the time you would measure.
You cannot translate in distorsion 1 ps timing error if the time base accuracy of the gear is 1 ns.
In that case the FFT will not show any distorsion because the audio sample is shifted by 1 ps but the gear can detect only an order of magnitude higher. (1 ns).
I don't know if such that gear exists, definitely not the dScope III used to measure the jitter attenuation since its time base is very poor (see the specs).
Finally it is better that you do not venture into neuroscience issues, we understand that in the audio field you are smarter than John Curl, but neuro science is something else.
Its quite true the very small phase noise errors can have audible effects in dacs, particularly so for Sigma Delta architectures. The effects have nothing whatsoever to do with humans directly hearing anything on a femtosecond time scale.
Also, according to some studies the smallest time differential humans can detect is somewhere in the low nanosecond range, and it has nothing to do with greater than 20kHz frequency detection.
Some reading material for anyone interested:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnins.2014.00034/full
https://people.engr.tamu.edu/spalermo/docs/clock_jitter_effects_delta_sigma_modulators_saad_2012.pdf
Sigma-Delta ADC Clocking—More Than Jitter | Analog Devices
https://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/10/3821
Also, according to some studies the smallest time differential humans can detect is somewhere in the low nanosecond range, and it has nothing to do with greater than 20kHz frequency detection.
Some reading material for anyone interested:
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnins.2014.00034/full
https://people.engr.tamu.edu/spalermo/docs/clock_jitter_effects_delta_sigma_modulators_saad_2012.pdf
Sigma-Delta ADC Clocking—More Than Jitter | Analog Devices
https://www.jneurosci.org/content/31/10/3821
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EDIT 2: Best I can find may be: Mental Health Research Institute Staff Publications - University of Michigan. Mental Health Research Institute - Google Books
EDIT 3: Okay, the one above is a human animal study.
EDIT 3: Okay, the one above is a human animal study.
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Talking without trying. audible from first listening. Just try it, it´s not so expensive, maybe less than time of chats here
Yesterday, I opened this clock - Accusilicon AS 318, interesting!
Talking without trying is the typical behavior of those who can only write "+1" without the minimal skill to understand what they are talking about.
They continues claiming without trying.
I well know it's clearly audible because I have tried several times with different devices, but obviously it is easier to post nonsense than to use the soldering iron and try.
Of course the clock has a time error - that's the definition of jitter. But I, and You, was talking about how it effect the analog side - don't shift the cards around....
... and on the analog side, there is no timing error.
Please, don't replay again that "the clock has a timing error...", it will not make you look particular.... engaged, for a better word
//
Of course the clock has a time error - that's the definition of jitter. But I, and You, was talking about how it effect the analog side - don't shift the cards around....
... and on the analog side, there is no timing error.
Please, don't replay again that "the clock has a timing error...", it will not make you look particular.... engaged, for a better word
//
I have already replied in post #10002 about the analog side.
I don't own a suitable gear to measure the jitter effect as distortion and also I'm not interested to get one.
But maybe I haven't written it enough: just try and evaluate the difference.
Is it so difficult to understand?
Or just is difficult to take the soldering iron and trying?
You don't need the instrument, your ears are enough.
I have done my experiments.
I just challenge you on that there is no timing errors that a human (anaimal or not) can detect. Only distorsion and noise.
Does it matter to you why you hear a difference?
The answer in #10002 shows you are confused of what is going on and that you are completely stuck on timing.
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I just challenge you on that there is no timing errors that a human (anaimal or not) can detect. Only distorsion and noise.
Does it matter to you why you hear a difference?
The answer in #10002 shows you are confused of what is going on and that you are completely stuck on timing.
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Indeed when the audio samples are processed by the DAC with an incorrect timing this affects the perceiving of the space although each samples is free of THD.
To my taste the DAM1021 is an excellent example of space distortion compared to live music.
No, you are very confused.
Can you understand that timing errors cause audio samples to shift away from the ideal time they should be processed?
If not I give up.
If so, can you understand that you cannot detect that as distortion if the instrument you are using has a time base accuracy far worse than the timing error you would measure?
And since you have done your experiments please let us know your results (and also what kind of experiments).
Have you heard any difference?
Not aware of published perceptual research on that. Possible to demonstrate though. Should be measurable since in the analog domain the perception of L/R location is related to phase stability between channels. You already mentioned how angle changes with timing. If the timing is between channels is noisy then the angle must be blurred across space.