In reply to Petter Person, post 2410:
It is indeed a nice Peerless TC5FC07-4 driver you found there, now I have investigated a little further.
My sentiment seems to be backed more objectively by your posted links by "5een" and "Feleppa".
It also seems to have about 10db more output than the Visaton BF37 I suggested, but only 3,5 mm larger.
But there is a catch: Its does not seem to be readily available in Europe.
I have tried all the outlets suggested at Tymphany's website, but it is not stocked or only avaiable in bulk volumes.
Can anyone tell where to buy these things in Europe ?
It is indeed a nice Peerless TC5FC07-4 driver you found there, now I have investigated a little further.
My sentiment seems to be backed more objectively by your posted links by "5een" and "Feleppa".
It also seems to have about 10db more output than the Visaton BF37 I suggested, but only 3,5 mm larger.
But there is a catch: Its does not seem to be readily available in Europe.
I have tried all the outlets suggested at Tymphany's website, but it is not stocked or only avaiable in bulk volumes.
Can anyone tell where to buy these things in Europe ?
I had a look and it seems to be unavailable, in my searching though I found this page which has many more candidate drivers: http://feleppa.com.au/speakermeasmid.html
this looks super similar: https://cpc.farnell.com/peerless-by-tymphany/tc5fc00-04/tc-full-range-1-5-inch-neo-4-ohm/dp/LS05122
this looks super similar: https://cpc.farnell.com/peerless-by-tymphany/tc5fc00-04/tc-full-range-1-5-inch-neo-4-ohm/dp/LS05122
In reply to Kipman, post 2442:
You are right, Peerless TC5FC00-04 IS similar to TC5FC07-04, but with higher Qt and Fs.... and a lot less expensive.
I think they make this for use w/o a rear chamber, as in laptops and TV's.
I also think WE are better off with the TC5FC07-04, at least if we want a rear chamber, which will raise both Q and Fs.
In my case the MF's sit in the bass chamber of the LF's.
Anyways, two things happened during the last few minutes.
First, my log-in at TLHP (french website as posted by Persson above) finally came thru. I had given up, but they claim to have TC5FC07-04 in store.
But best, Soundimports.eu has agreed to supply TC5FC07-04 anyway. Previously, they declined. Look at this message:
" Dear Bjarne
Thank you for your message.
I have double checked with our sales team, and we can order these specially for you. If you would like to order we will have them in 1-2 weeks.
The price will be €16,95 per piece, including VAT.
Please let us know if you would like that."
I think I am going order 10 pcs., but if you are interested too maybe you could "tag along" by mailing Kevin at info@soundimports.nl in order that the speakers could be in the same import order.
I have very good experience with Soundimports, also for claims.
You are right, Peerless TC5FC00-04 IS similar to TC5FC07-04, but with higher Qt and Fs.... and a lot less expensive.
I think they make this for use w/o a rear chamber, as in laptops and TV's.
I also think WE are better off with the TC5FC07-04, at least if we want a rear chamber, which will raise both Q and Fs.
In my case the MF's sit in the bass chamber of the LF's.
Anyways, two things happened during the last few minutes.
First, my log-in at TLHP (french website as posted by Persson above) finally came thru. I had given up, but they claim to have TC5FC07-04 in store.
But best, Soundimports.eu has agreed to supply TC5FC07-04 anyway. Previously, they declined. Look at this message:
" Dear Bjarne
Thank you for your message.
I have double checked with our sales team, and we can order these specially for you. If you would like to order we will have them in 1-2 weeks.
The price will be €16,95 per piece, including VAT.
Please let us know if you would like that."
I think I am going order 10 pcs., but if you are interested too maybe you could "tag along" by mailing Kevin at info@soundimports.nl in order that the speakers could be in the same import order.
I have very good experience with Soundimports, also for claims.
I also notice that the TC5FC07-04 has 2mm xmax and the TC5FC00-04 has only 0.6mm. My speaker is just a low cost desktop speaker though so I will go with the cheaper TC5FC00-04 (thanks for the offer). I think I will cross over to my woofers ~400Hz so the lower xmax isn't that big a limitation. The speaker is still coming out at >100dB/1m and listening distance will be less than this.
2.83V on my horn:
max SPL (0.6mm/5W 2P2S):
2.83V on my horn:
max SPL (0.6mm/5W 2P2S):
I haven't seen this driver mentioned, how about the Misco 100-MR08-02?
Fs=130Hz
Qe=0.59
efficiency 0.74%
https://store.miscospeakers.com/4-inch-mid-range-speaker-93073
Fs=130Hz
Qe=0.59
efficiency 0.74%
https://store.miscospeakers.com/4-inch-mid-range-speaker-93073
In reply to IG81, post no. 2445, and Petter Persson post 2410:
Once again a suggestion for a big-bucket MF driver, so the first consideration is: Will you be designing a PA horn, or are you in the eternal quest for a HiFi horn ? (If there is such a thing, a MEH is probably our best possibility).
The large 4" Misco above will probably have a high power handling and combined with a similar LF driver you put all the strain on the HF driver instead.
This is because the 4" diaphragm volume (Vtc) will shunt higher frequencies which will rob you of a good bandwidth in the midrange.
You will probably only get 1KHz out of it, unless you make big ports which again affects the HF response (HF's shunted as they go by).
So for PA, just add a 1,5" CD and you have yourself a "Yeller" or a "Squaker" with multi-many db's
But for HiFi, I gave Petter Perssons suggestion for MF driver in post 2410, Peerless TC5FC07-04, a few minutes in Hornresp, below.
As you can see, a good wide bandwidth which will give you some leverage to do a proper CO, considering phase response, in the 2-3 KH region and thus relieving the HF driver so that a dome tweeter can be used, for instance. Port dia's only 12mm.
Still, these drivers are not "lame" at all. A good 103db/W, displacement limited at 400 Hz/2mm (which will be mitigated by the HP section in the BP filter), plus an electrical limit (5W/unit) at 115db !
I think our spouses will have left long before that
Once again a suggestion for a big-bucket MF driver, so the first consideration is: Will you be designing a PA horn, or are you in the eternal quest for a HiFi horn ? (If there is such a thing, a MEH is probably our best possibility).
The large 4" Misco above will probably have a high power handling and combined with a similar LF driver you put all the strain on the HF driver instead.
This is because the 4" diaphragm volume (Vtc) will shunt higher frequencies which will rob you of a good bandwidth in the midrange.
You will probably only get 1KHz out of it, unless you make big ports which again affects the HF response (HF's shunted as they go by).
So for PA, just add a 1,5" CD and you have yourself a "Yeller" or a "Squaker" with multi-many db's
But for HiFi, I gave Petter Perssons suggestion for MF driver in post 2410, Peerless TC5FC07-04, a few minutes in Hornresp, below.
As you can see, a good wide bandwidth which will give you some leverage to do a proper CO, considering phase response, in the 2-3 KH region and thus relieving the HF driver so that a dome tweeter can be used, for instance. Port dia's only 12mm.
Still, these drivers are not "lame" at all. A good 103db/W, displacement limited at 400 Hz/2mm (which will be mitigated by the HP section in the BP filter), plus an electrical limit (5W/unit) at 115db !
I think our spouses will have left long before that
Attachments
Barniboy,
Thanks for exposing the trade-offs there. I may be looking to build a small MEH just for kicks. I'm considering basing it on the Eminence WG 10 and would pretty much be forced to use small mids due to its size. I hadn`t much looked at the sub-3" Tymphany drivers, assuming their Qe would mostly be too high, but perhaps there are others with sensible specs like the TC5FC07.
Thanks for exposing the trade-offs there. I may be looking to build a small MEH just for kicks. I'm considering basing it on the Eminence WG 10 and would pretty much be forced to use small mids due to its size. I hadn`t much looked at the sub-3" Tymphany drivers, assuming their Qe would mostly be too high, but perhaps there are others with sensible specs like the TC5FC07.
Indeed it does ! But there is more !
Have a look at the frequency-response in the Data sheet, below.
There is a level increase above 2KHz, right up there where we need it.
I have now ordered the drivers and is already on the way of modelling 3D, sneak previews below.
I guess it should be possible to 3D print the first section and have a look-see of MF-HF interaction.
So still some R/D and a long way to go...
Have a look at the frequency-response in the Data sheet, below.
There is a level increase above 2KHz, right up there where we need it.
I have now ordered the drivers and is already on the way of modelling 3D, sneak previews below.
I guess it should be possible to 3D print the first section and have a look-see of MF-HF interaction.
So still some R/D and a long way to go...
Attachments
I bought the Aura NSW2-326-8A years ago to use in a high crossover point MEH for most of the same reasons as you have found here. Hulkss made some good posts about it but no build eventuated that was posted
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...midrange-cone-bandpass-mid-unity-horn-86.html
I posted the same link in another thread that you posted in too from 5 years ago, which I found when looking for the link
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...midrange-cone-bandpass-mid-unity-horn-86.html
I posted the same link in another thread that you posted in too from 5 years ago, which I found when looking for the link
That looks like the tightest mid/hf spacing yet Barniboy, are you aiming for a 3kHz crossover?
My H6512 waveguides arrived:
I think I can get the injection ports at closest 4cm from the compresion driver but will have to have the mids on hand to work this out.
Has anyone ever tried making a synergy with a coaxialy mounted comp and compresion driver (simlar to the off the shelf coax type but with separate drivers) such that the comp is inside the phase plug of the driver?
My H6512 waveguides arrived:
I think I can get the injection ports at closest 4cm from the compresion driver but will have to have the mids on hand to work this out.
Has anyone ever tried making a synergy with a coaxialy mounted comp and compresion driver (simlar to the off the shelf coax type but with separate drivers) such that the comp is inside the phase plug of the driver?
this is the plan: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...mid-in-unity-horn.88237/page-121#post-6916063 I will post a thread when I have some progress.
yep they are screw on type the comp I am using is a basic mylar dome with a kind of phase shield.
yep they are screw on type the comp I am using is a basic mylar dome with a kind of phase shield.
Hi fluid,
I plan to measure the T/S parameters to understand what response will Hornresponse predict.
Kindest regards,
M
Have you done any preliminary design? I had acquired about 12 of them (a package deal) with the same idea.I bought the Aura NSW2-326-8A years ago to use in a high crossover point MEH for most of the same reasons as you have found here. Hulkss made some good posts about it but no build eventuated that was posted
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...midrange-cone-bandpass-mid-unity-horn-86.html
I posted the same link in another thread that you posted in too from 5 years ago, which I found when looking for the link
I plan to measure the T/S parameters to understand what response will Hornresponse predict.
Kindest regards,
M
Nothing much beyond Hornresp a CAD screen and some plumbing caps for back chambers. Other ideas got in the way. When my CNC is working prototyping will be much easier.
Hi fluid,
Did you measure the T/S parameters for the Hornresp or did you use the ones from a specification sheet?
Please keep me/us informed.
Kindest regards,
M
were I a great mind, I would say "great minds think alike", just on Tuesday I was in a store looking for plumbing cups.
Did you measure the T/S parameters for the Hornresp or did you use the ones from a specification sheet?
Please keep me/us informed.
Kindest regards,
M
Last edited:
Spec sheet
Sure just don't hold your breath it has been waiting more than 5 years already
Hi fluid,
Kindest regards,
M
ROTFLMAO. Thank you for letting me know so I can start breathing again.Spec sheet
Sure just don't hold your breath it has been waiting more than 5 years already
Kindest regards,
M
In reply to Kipman, post 2451, and in a way also to Petter Persson, post 2417 (reg. using a dome):
Yes, well spotted. It IS a close fitting indeed, but as you see from the modelling I showed in post 2449 it can be done due to the small size of the Peerless TC5FC07-04 driver. Best I think by 3D printing.
But still, the area at S2 (~40 cm2) corresponds to a circular circumference giving upper horn loading freqency of only ~1600 Hz... bah ! The rest relies on controlling the upper Vtc resonance.
But why ? you may ask.
Well, you see: Studies made for Rashorn1 (my link post 2420) showed that the relative delay between the HF and the MF (B&C DE250 comp driver and 4 x Visatons FRS5 X respectively), was 63mm, the MF's in advance and thus in need of delay.
Replacing the B&C 250 DE with a dome tweeter, Audax TW025A26, this delay was brought down to about 18mm, a 45mm reduction, which is very plausible just by looking at how much further back a compression driver is.
Using a 2KHz cross-over frequency, 18mm is only 1/10 the wavelength and probably OK to be called "in-phase".
However, we are purist or what ? The MEH I suggest above in post 2446 and 2449 using Peerless TC5FC07-04 and Audax TW025A26 will bring S2 10mm further back, and S1 3mm further forward, thus reducing the relative delay to only 5mm.
The 3mm is due to incorporating the throat adaptor (the disassembled front plate of the dome tweeter) into the horn itself, see illustration preview assy 2 in post 2449.
Rashorn1 used a 3mm 3D printed adaptor in place of the front plate. But in this case there is no place for screws in the flange due to the tight S1/S2 fitting and so I suggest a yoke behind the driver which the Audax is very well suited for.
All of this means that such horn, dare we call it Rashorn2, is a "sweet-spot" design that offer drivers in-phase AS IS.
No delays in the CO network are required, just plain and simple BW2 and reverse the wiring to one of the drivers to get back in-phase, as discussed in more detail above.
Yes, well spotted. It IS a close fitting indeed, but as you see from the modelling I showed in post 2449 it can be done due to the small size of the Peerless TC5FC07-04 driver. Best I think by 3D printing.
But still, the area at S2 (~40 cm2) corresponds to a circular circumference giving upper horn loading freqency of only ~1600 Hz... bah ! The rest relies on controlling the upper Vtc resonance.
But why ? you may ask.
Well, you see: Studies made for Rashorn1 (my link post 2420) showed that the relative delay between the HF and the MF (B&C DE250 comp driver and 4 x Visatons FRS5 X respectively), was 63mm, the MF's in advance and thus in need of delay.
Replacing the B&C 250 DE with a dome tweeter, Audax TW025A26, this delay was brought down to about 18mm, a 45mm reduction, which is very plausible just by looking at how much further back a compression driver is.
Using a 2KHz cross-over frequency, 18mm is only 1/10 the wavelength and probably OK to be called "in-phase".
However, we are purist or what ? The MEH I suggest above in post 2446 and 2449 using Peerless TC5FC07-04 and Audax TW025A26 will bring S2 10mm further back, and S1 3mm further forward, thus reducing the relative delay to only 5mm.
The 3mm is due to incorporating the throat adaptor (the disassembled front plate of the dome tweeter) into the horn itself, see illustration preview assy 2 in post 2449.
Rashorn1 used a 3mm 3D printed adaptor in place of the front plate. But in this case there is no place for screws in the flange due to the tight S1/S2 fitting and so I suggest a yoke behind the driver which the Audax is very well suited for.
All of this means that such horn, dare we call it Rashorn2, is a "sweet-spot" design that offer drivers in-phase AS IS.
No delays in the CO network are required, just plain and simple BW2 and reverse the wiring to one of the drivers to get back in-phase, as discussed in more detail above.