Been happy with some of the SB paper cones. Used a lot of the Dayton RS, but the breakup keeps me in steep crossovers and difficulty in phase. I keep trying new and exotic materials, but wind up back with paper.
The Purifi drivers look very nice. Just ordered a pair of the larger CSS as they look like they can do 2500Hz OK. The new funky Satori cones look good. ScanSpeaks seem to require too much fiddling to get them smooth.
Lots of generalizations on cone material, myself included. Pay attention to the result, not how they get it. All poly is not the same, nor is glass, Kevlar, carbon, paper or even metals and ceramics. But somehow a cellulous bonded fiber composite seems to always win for me. There can be a lot of different tricks with the shape of the cone, slits, ridges, bumps, doping's, multi-layers, etc. Again, all that matters is the result. If you want, you can go back to the old AES papers and read about the empirical testing back in the 60's and 70's done on breakup, bell mode, teeter-totter etc.
Some people like to go to a full range as a wide band mid. Mark, Fountek etc.
The Purifi drivers look very nice. Just ordered a pair of the larger CSS as they look like they can do 2500Hz OK. The new funky Satori cones look good. ScanSpeaks seem to require too much fiddling to get them smooth.
Lots of generalizations on cone material, myself included. Pay attention to the result, not how they get it. All poly is not the same, nor is glass, Kevlar, carbon, paper or even metals and ceramics. But somehow a cellulous bonded fiber composite seems to always win for me. There can be a lot of different tricks with the shape of the cone, slits, ridges, bumps, doping's, multi-layers, etc. Again, all that matters is the result. If you want, you can go back to the old AES papers and read about the empirical testing back in the 60's and 70's done on breakup, bell mode, teeter-totter etc.
Some people like to go to a full range as a wide band mid. Mark, Fountek etc.
Mineral filled PP has been here for ages. Vifa P13 and P17 being exemplary. And well-performing, be it in need of a surround renewal today.
I finished a pair of small-ish 2 way speakers using Scanspeak 15w-8530k-01's last summer. Even after living with them for many months I continue to marvel and smile at the quality of the sound. Clean, clean, clean and detailed. Fantasic vocals and mids. So clear. And all else is great, too, for that matter. Their LF extension in a sealed box is remarkable for their size. f3 of 53 Hz for a sealed 5 1/2" driver! The only downside is the price. They cost aroud $215 each USD these days. :-(
Ah, nice. But too spendy for me. That's coated paper I believe? Though a very sophisticated version of it. Other coated paper units could interest me at a lower price - ideas?
Hello Dave! Yes, clutching at straws when you can't audition anything. That leaves a lot of us with "theoretical" discussions about stuff we'd like to try out. I don't want my home flooded with speaker parts - it's already flooded with amplifier projects. So I'm doing a lot of research before making a move. I live in town in London in a smallish apartment, which is already over-full of stuff.
What floats your boat for vocals, Dave? I listen to a lot of opera and singer-songwriters.
Alpair 10PeN. Good luck finding a pair. Alpair 10.3eN/MAO 10.2 and Alpair 7/11ms are pretty good too. Haven’t EnABLed any of the latter. On the budget end, hard to get outside NA, is the Silver Flute W14. Althou it should be good up to as high as about 5k we XO at 450 Hz at the highest so might not satisfy your mid requirement.
Do note that almost all paper cones thru here get coated.
I found the comment about P13 (and probably P17) strange, i have seen no deterioration in the surrounds. Theese drivers rs lack ultimate DDR
dave
Do note that almost all paper cones thru here get coated.
I found the comment about P13 (and probably P17) strange, i have seen no deterioration in the surrounds. Theese drivers rs lack ultimate DDR
dave
Scanspeak makes them now as part of their Classic line if I am not mistaken.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/scanspeak-woofers-6-7/scanspeak-classic-p17wj00-6.5-woofer/
Yes. Coated paper. And not that efficient either. Not ideal but oh that sound. And spendy indeed but I built them to be the main speakers that I woud not replace for years. It seems I do that every decade or so. Normally I would not spend so much.
For vocal and fundamental range the cabinet is more important to get right than the exact speaker brand. Though certain speakers do sound more natural in this region due to the materials they use. I would recommend a 6.5 inch speakers and forget the cement block. too little cabinet space even for a five inch.
What will destroy good vocal sound. Too small of an enclosure, especially if it is sealed. No internal dampening of resonance and the back wave of the speaker. Speaker cabinet that resonates. Non parallel walls are usually better. No internal bracing. Aperiodic enclosures sound more natural in timbre at the expense of power handling and bass extension which are not that important in vocal range at a close distance.
Yes. I assume that you need a speaker that is small enough to fit on a desk or music work station or on the top of an upright piano. So you are limited in the total size. But you want the speakers to be generous in size. Little small computer speakers would not be wize. Also very important to fill the inside of the speaker cabinet with dampening material to break up the internal backwaves and modes which reflect back into the speaker. you can probably find some pre-made MDF cabinets at Parts Express that will work for you if you don't have wood working tools. If you are shooting for the absolute best vocal reproduction the cabinet will need to be made to higher standards. You can get excellent results with double wall MDF in a small enclosure.
Something like this but with better internal bracing can work pretty good. A solid non resonant enclosure with non parallel walls will be a little bit better but is harder to make
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I can use a larger speaker like 12 litres or whatever, that's not a problem. I'm in the UK so Parts Express is no good to me. I can think about cabinets, but easiest for me is a 5.25" 135mm mid-bass since my existing cabinets have 150mm wide front panels. I would need something else for a 6.5" unit. Not impossible, though.
How do you see the difference between 5.25" and 6.5"?
How do you see the difference between 5.25" and 6.5"?
You can still get good results from a 5.25 driver. It's just that for some reason, every driver that I auditioned for the vocal range. 6.5-8 inch drivers sounded the most natural to me. I think it has something to do with the size and natural resonances of cones that size. IF you already have a good 5.25 by all means use it. As long as it is not crammed into too small of a cabinet and the cabinet is designed well it will sound pretty good. If you are just changing out the driver in your old cabinets you will only get much better results if the original speakers were very low quality. If the cabinet was sealed you can add an aperiodic vent which will improve the timbre of vocals usually. But you will have to redesign the crossover with a new mid bass in there. While you have the cabinet open check if it has any dampening material in there.
Silverflute 5.25 are suppossed to be really good for the money. I've never heard them and i have a pair in my closet that I have never used. They use a wool and paper composite cone. Suppossed to be warm sounding. Made in China, there should be a distributor somewhere in the UK that can ship them. Most of the 5.25 drivers I have heard are a bit cool sounding in the vocal range which is why I shy away from them.
Your expectation can only be met when loudspeaker as a whole is designed in such a manner that it performs as desired, and midrange unit bit is just one of the parts. Essentially, it is not particularly important which material it is made of. Obviously a vast fishing territory for the merchants.