As suggested, it is a hard question to answer without more answers about the context of the loudspeaker one wants to build.
But given that the Alpair 7ms/11ms (4”/6”) with monoSuspension means that you do not have 2 suspensions fighting each other. This almost invariabilty reduces the potential for being able to reproduce the small details, particularily important thru the midrange (160Hz->2.5kHz (by commin definition). There is a smaller 3” monoSuspension and it is available, i understand. as a MAOP unit which takes perfomnance up somewhat.
dave
But given that the Alpair 7ms/11ms (4”/6”) with monoSuspension means that you do not have 2 suspensions fighting each other. This almost invariabilty reduces the potential for being able to reproduce the small details, particularily important thru the midrange (160Hz->2.5kHz (by commin definition). There is a smaller 3” monoSuspension and it is available, i understand. as a MAOP unit which takes perfomnance up somewhat.
dave
Thanks for suggesting Alpairs. I do already have Alpair 10M units in tall columns and they are very clean. Recently I've been using a Wharfedale Diamond type bookshelf (Program 30D) with some kind of poly cone which I find fuller on vocals so I've stayed with those. I'm not convinced about metal mid-bass.
Slight revision to plans. I also have a square section of sturdy aluminium which is 150mm by 150mm by 530mm tall. So around 10 ltr. I can use a hole saw to do the cutouts on the front, which would be 127mm for the 150mm mid-bass and 79mm for the 105mm tweeter.
Because of the dimensions of this alu box (which I would dampen and add sides to making a sandwich) and of the cutouts I will need to stick to a 150mm OD midbass unit, not bigger or smaller. But there's plenty of choice. On my radar are SEAS U16RCY, A.Cantus AC130F1, Peerless 830991, SB15MFC-08, Scanspeak 15W8530 and probably a few more. I prefer not to spend a lot here because it's experimental, so I'd probably pass on the Revelator and Illuminator options.
The next step is finding a crossover and tweeter combination for one of these. Faital Pro 5FE100 or 5FE120 or same size options are not impossible but would mean a 114mm hole saw and a recalculation of where to put the cutouts. This could be a solution with the right tweeter and crossover.
So suggestions for a combination please with an existing crossover design?
Many thanks guys, you've been great so far.
Because of the dimensions of this alu box (which I would dampen and add sides to making a sandwich) and of the cutouts I will need to stick to a 150mm OD midbass unit, not bigger or smaller. But there's plenty of choice. On my radar are SEAS U16RCY, A.Cantus AC130F1, Peerless 830991, SB15MFC-08, Scanspeak 15W8530 and probably a few more. I prefer not to spend a lot here because it's experimental, so I'd probably pass on the Revelator and Illuminator options.
The next step is finding a crossover and tweeter combination for one of these. Faital Pro 5FE100 or 5FE120 or same size options are not impossible but would mean a 114mm hole saw and a recalculation of where to put the cutouts. This could be a solution with the right tweeter and crossover.
So suggestions for a combination please with an existing crossover design?
Many thanks guys, you've been great so far.
I have this in a 3 way and... well... it might seem I'm a salesman for Audax but they are very intelligible for vocals. I highly recommend
My favorite 5.5-inch is the Tang-band W5-2143. For near field listening in a ported enclosure. Sealed if used as mid in a multi way.
Despite the name that's actually 155.5mm diameter, or 6.1", so not going to fit the OP's preferred enclosure.
Ok, SB Acoustics SB12MNRX25-4 is another favorite as mid with several other options in the SB12NRX25 series of drivers. Only 4-inch, not 5 but less than 6.1
I've directly compared most of the popular <$75 woofers in an otherwise identical speaker, and the Zaph ZA14 is the best pure mid of the bunch, as long as you are crossing <2.3khz. Perhaps above if you notch the breakup, but I never investigated that, so won't recommend it. The speakers I compared were the SS Discovery, SBNRX and MFC, Peerless Nomex, and Dayton RS paper cone.
All was said but few cents more:
I would flee a concrete enclosure for good vocals. Concrete enclosure are well known for cabinet and not a proper material for damping. A cheap external 10 mm plywood with an internal 10 mm mdf or chip wood board glued together will give far better neutral box.
If you want plain full voice then it is already not a neutral voices you want. For this Polypropylene, nomex, plastic may be closer from what you expect imho in the good list members provided already. It is alwqys a challenge but the design will setup the final result, baffle step compensation mandatory, good filter, good tweeter choice with the correct crossover and even the good capacitors, here I will avoid most of Polypropylene caps. Sealed will be easier to do and the 5" should not be a design limitation. Because anyway circa 100 hz to 5000 hz flat is hard to do with a standalone driver. I would avoid metal driver while they are good for the voice detail the high break ups ask often high order filters that are expensive if done with passive parts.
You talked about budget and I see one driver that could be good for neutral voice but not the size you want, the 6" ER18rnx reed paper cone from Seas with a XO not higher than 2K hz. Not full voice. Lighted low end that voice need and that makes also aerogel sounding good for voices as the aerogel ref above in the thread. The price of the Satori mp16 mids has also decreased and Audioexcite has a design for it. Go for MarkK on wayback internet machine for instance for the good design with a vented er18rnx reed paper cone. The Satori maybe a little MORE fuller as you say and from numerous testimonials on that regard than the Seas.
That said fornthe price the Peereless Nomex advised by wolfteeth seems to please everyone and cost cheap and might suits your tastes imho.
Filter work is the way, I am sensible to the voices and uses a lot women voices or specific men ones like David Bowie and Paul Mc Cartney and on my main speaker the filter tolerance is as low as 0,1 uf to have the right heigth of low end voice tone... so a question of design most than material...material is the icing of the cake if all is made right before imho.
Taking an already made design is your best bet to save time and monney (but in learning detriment of course). My bet here the MarkK reed paper cone with the Seas waveguide tweeter design, certainly very clear, informative and neutral with the apropriate soundstage that is also important for voice thanks the wave guide.
I would flee a concrete enclosure for good vocals. Concrete enclosure are well known for cabinet and not a proper material for damping. A cheap external 10 mm plywood with an internal 10 mm mdf or chip wood board glued together will give far better neutral box.
If you want plain full voice then it is already not a neutral voices you want. For this Polypropylene, nomex, plastic may be closer from what you expect imho in the good list members provided already. It is alwqys a challenge but the design will setup the final result, baffle step compensation mandatory, good filter, good tweeter choice with the correct crossover and even the good capacitors, here I will avoid most of Polypropylene caps. Sealed will be easier to do and the 5" should not be a design limitation. Because anyway circa 100 hz to 5000 hz flat is hard to do with a standalone driver. I would avoid metal driver while they are good for the voice detail the high break ups ask often high order filters that are expensive if done with passive parts.
You talked about budget and I see one driver that could be good for neutral voice but not the size you want, the 6" ER18rnx reed paper cone from Seas with a XO not higher than 2K hz. Not full voice. Lighted low end that voice need and that makes also aerogel sounding good for voices as the aerogel ref above in the thread. The price of the Satori mp16 mids has also decreased and Audioexcite has a design for it. Go for MarkK on wayback internet machine for instance for the good design with a vented er18rnx reed paper cone. The Satori maybe a little MORE fuller as you say and from numerous testimonials on that regard than the Seas.
That said fornthe price the Peereless Nomex advised by wolfteeth seems to please everyone and cost cheap and might suits your tastes imho.
Filter work is the way, I am sensible to the voices and uses a lot women voices or specific men ones like David Bowie and Paul Mc Cartney and on my main speaker the filter tolerance is as low as 0,1 uf to have the right heigth of low end voice tone... so a question of design most than material...material is the icing of the cake if all is made right before imho.
Taking an already made design is your best bet to save time and monney (but in learning detriment of course). My bet here the MarkK reed paper cone with the Seas waveguide tweeter design, certainly very clear, informative and neutral with the apropriate soundstage that is also important for voice thanks the wave guide.
Last edited:
Peerless 830991
I'm setting concrete aside because of its weight and going with some kind of aluminium sandwich in the first instance. So I have 150x150x530x3mm aluminium square section to use with CLD and a plywood outer skin on the side walls. I haven't fixed on the damping material in the CLD - trying to check out vinyl floor tiles, rubbed, bitumen, green glue, other elastic polymer filler....... The plywood outer skin would be bolted on secure and tight.
Any suggestions?
I'll start with a polypropylene/plastic type midbass as you say, of 130mm diameter.
I'm setting concrete aside because of its weight and going with some kind of aluminium sandwich in the first instance. So I have 150x150x530x3mm aluminium square section to use with CLD and a plywood outer skin on the side walls. I haven't fixed on the damping material in the CLD - trying to check out vinyl floor tiles, rubbed, bitumen, green glue, other elastic polymer filler....... The plywood outer skin would be bolted on secure and tight.
Any suggestions?
Just reviving this thread to get more opinions. I've been living with some early Wharfedale Diamond bookshelves which do vocals rather well - just a typical 135mm mid-bass from polypropylene and a 19mm tweeter. So wondering what's the next step. I've been looking at Kevlar, which the Wharfedale Diamonds went over to and which are found in a lot of speakers like B&W. Haven't heard Kevlar units but from what little I can gather from YouTube shootouts and reviews the midrange is detailed but rather thin - not warm like PP. So voices have less warmth and presence, whether you call this "accurate" or whatever. Yes, of course the design counts, but I'm just looking at cone materials in this instance.
The latest cone-du-jour seems to be mineral filled polypropylene like the SEAS CURV units and commercial speakers like Ascent Sierrra and in fact the latest Wharfedale Diamond 12 series. I'm wondering if these keep the warmth of PP while adding some more detail and transparency. I'm not convinced by the reviews I read which suggest it's closer to Kevlar.
Can anyone throw more light on these cone materials, in particular the CURV types?
Alternatively, I also read that PP cones can perform better with larger voice coils for more control - is this a factor worth looking at in a 5" mid-bass?
The latest cone-du-jour seems to be mineral filled polypropylene like the SEAS CURV units and commercial speakers like Ascent Sierrra and in fact the latest Wharfedale Diamond 12 series. I'm wondering if these keep the warmth of PP while adding some more detail and transparency. I'm not convinced by the reviews I read which suggest it's closer to Kevlar.
Can anyone throw more light on these cone materials, in particular the CURV types?
Alternatively, I also read that PP cones can perform better with larger voice coils for more control - is this a factor worth looking at in a 5" mid-bass?