That is one nice setup. Thank god I have a wife who loves audio as much as I do
And if I ever came across a setup like that and could get it, I would in a heartbeat
I love the old WE gear.
My last ex owns more pairs of loudspeakers than I do 
.
She was 25 when we split up and no, she doesn't have a beard.
As much as I appreciate and respect the old gear, it's probably not up to my needs with respect to extension (high and low).
I also fear the metal horns don't really complement my preferences in music.
. She was 25 when we split up and no, she doesn't have a beard.
As much as I appreciate and respect the old gear, it's probably not up to my needs with respect to extension (high and low).
I also fear the metal horns don't really complement my preferences in music.
Last edited:
As said, the RCF Coaxial in the current Bullfrog is completely modified, both the woofer and the compression driver.
Older Bullfrogs were crossed at 1500 to a smaller compression driver, whereas the latest active model's crossover is at 680hz.
In the past, US made drivers were used.
Martion reintroduced the passive Bullfrog a few years ago. It's a slightely different amphibia with a 1" compression driver and XO at 1500Hz
As it appears, quite remarkably, both diaphragm and cone are 'sandwiched composites' and I also read both are actually paper based.
However this may as well be a misunderstanding from the reviewer.
Chassis, diaphragm/cone and suspension are modified or custom built. The magnet cap is also different from the regular RCF.
I am not sure whether horn is completely customized or a modified RCF horn.
Older Bullfrogs were crossed at 1500 to a smaller compression driver, whereas the latest active model's crossover is at 680hz.
In the past, US made drivers were used.
Martion reintroduced the passive Bullfrog a few years ago. It's a slightely different amphibia with a 1" compression driver and XO at 1500Hz
As it appears, quite remarkably, both diaphragm and cone are 'sandwiched composites' and I also read both are actually paper based.
However this may as well be a misunderstanding from the reviewer.
Chassis, diaphragm/cone and suspension are modified or custom built. The magnet cap is also different from the regular RCF.
I am not sure whether horn is completely customized or a modified RCF horn.
Attachments
Last edited:
I have first hand experience with the Martion Bullfrog and the CX15n351.
The driver is the exact same one and is only modified by Mr Bullfrog himself,
He applies the felt on the inside of the horn for absorbing reasons only.
The cup covering the magnet on the woofer is also done in the Bullfrog production line and glued in place, it has a threaded insert that is used to hold the driver in place as he does not use the front mounting holes on the woofer, but rather a bolt inserted from the rear of the cabinet to pull the driver in and hold it very firmly in place.
Nothing to it really. all simple mods done in house!!!!
seen it for myself
Only thing I would like to get my hands on is the crossover.
The driver is the exact same one and is only modified by Mr Bullfrog himself,
He applies the felt on the inside of the horn for absorbing reasons only.
The cup covering the magnet on the woofer is also done in the Bullfrog production line and glued in place, it has a threaded insert that is used to hold the driver in place as he does not use the front mounting holes on the woofer, but rather a bolt inserted from the rear of the cabinet to pull the driver in and hold it very firmly in place.
Nothing to it really. all simple mods done in house!!!!
seen it for myself
Only thing I would like to get my hands on is the crossover.
Last edited:
Are you sure?
Apart from more than a few references to raw drivers built to specs as well as post factory mods, the spider in the Martion 351 does look slightly different from the one in the factory driver.
Besides, the passive Bullfrog may house a driver that's based on the 251, the cone looks more similar to the one in the 351.
Could you explain the 1.4" vs 1.5" exit?
Apart from more than a few references to raw drivers built to specs as well as post factory mods, the spider in the Martion 351 does look slightly different from the one in the factory driver.
Besides, the passive Bullfrog may house a driver that's based on the 251, the cone looks more similar to the one in the 351.
Could you explain the 1.4" vs 1.5" exit?
Last edited:
believe me its the same driver and it uses the same 1.4" don't believe what they say, they are just trying to put you off copying their design. The Passive version is crossed over at 650hz to 680, I have measured it.
As mentioned I have first hand experience with them. One of the most dynamic speakers out there!
As mentioned I have first hand experience with them. One of the most dynamic speakers out there!
Last edited:
here is another company that uses the same driver, they use a Dope on the bass cone to tame the noted resonance.
Manufactures Specs are ******** though as the HF is again the standard 1.4" and they say it goes to 22Khz, nonsense!!!!
Redirect Notice
Manufactures Specs are ******** though as the HF is again the standard 1.4" and they say it goes to 22Khz, nonsense!!!!
Redirect Notice
Last edited:
Some (translated) quotes from magazines:
"Heiner Basil Martion did not suspect that three years would pass until he finally found a suitable replacement in a RCF 15 bass driver with Sandwich Composite Membrane and Neodymium Magnet, when the old chassis manufacturer discontinued production of the bass drivers. The new bass chassis, which is manufactured exactly like the RCF 1.5-inch high-midrange driver, with a paper diaphragm and Neodymium magnet according to Martion specifications, prompted the Berliner to revise the concept of the Bullfrog in order to increase the performance, and also carry out a facelift."
"Coaxial construction: Both the RCF 15-inch Bass drivers as well as the 1.5-inch high-frequency unit - both with sandwich composite membrane and neodymium magnet are elaborately modified by Martion. In order to achieve the lowest frequencies in the the small housing the cone is soft suspended.
The concave, twisted aluminum rings act as horn extension and serve a deeper decoupling of the horn. By the defined distance between the rings and between the rings and the case, the bass is radiated in all directions. In addition, the rings offer a practical protective function which also contributes positively to the design. They replace the ugly protective grille of the old Bullfrog."
"As before, the Bulli is a compact two-way coaxial horn speaker, which is designed as a minimum phase stable point-source with concentrically arranged drivers. The two RCF drivers are specially modified by Martion from the baskets, through the membranes to the suspensions. Of course, the designer did not want to tell me what exactly he is working on - as an innovator, he has nothing against imitators in principle, but something against copiers. So much seems to be certain: the high midrange and bass unit play five octaves each, the bass rolls off at around 680 hertz. This important transition is phase stable, so acoustically not recognizable (not even in our measurements). The high-midrange is behind the bass, the two diaphragms make the same movements for the mentioned frequency, the compression driver being used a little earlier to bridge the distance between the two drivers."
"Heiner Basil Martion did not suspect that three years would pass until he finally found a suitable replacement in a RCF 15 bass driver with Sandwich Composite Membrane and Neodymium Magnet, when the old chassis manufacturer discontinued production of the bass drivers. The new bass chassis, which is manufactured exactly like the RCF 1.5-inch high-midrange driver, with a paper diaphragm and Neodymium magnet according to Martion specifications, prompted the Berliner to revise the concept of the Bullfrog in order to increase the performance, and also carry out a facelift."
"Coaxial construction: Both the RCF 15-inch Bass drivers as well as the 1.5-inch high-frequency unit - both with sandwich composite membrane and neodymium magnet are elaborately modified by Martion. In order to achieve the lowest frequencies in the the small housing the cone is soft suspended.
The concave, twisted aluminum rings act as horn extension and serve a deeper decoupling of the horn. By the defined distance between the rings and between the rings and the case, the bass is radiated in all directions. In addition, the rings offer a practical protective function which also contributes positively to the design. They replace the ugly protective grille of the old Bullfrog."
"As before, the Bulli is a compact two-way coaxial horn speaker, which is designed as a minimum phase stable point-source with concentrically arranged drivers. The two RCF drivers are specially modified by Martion from the baskets, through the membranes to the suspensions. Of course, the designer did not want to tell me what exactly he is working on - as an innovator, he has nothing against imitators in principle, but something against copiers. So much seems to be certain: the high midrange and bass unit play five octaves each, the bass rolls off at around 680 hertz. This important transition is phase stable, so acoustically not recognizable (not even in our measurements). The high-midrange is behind the bass, the two diaphragms make the same movements for the mentioned frequency, the compression driver being used a little earlier to bridge the distance between the two drivers."
Last edited:
Yes, you're correct.
There appear to be some misconceptions among owners and reviewers concerning older verus current models.
Last edited:
"Coaxial construction: Both the RCF 15-inch Bass drivers as well as the 1.5-inch high-frequency unit - both with sandwich composite membrane and neodymium magnet are elaborately modified by Martion. In order to achieve the lowest frequencies in the the small housing the cone is soft suspended"
This confirms what I said, all modifications are done by Martion.
It is still the standard 1.4" comp driver though, that I promise.
I gaurantee the driver they use is standard from the factory.
This confirms what I said, all modifications are done by Martion.
It is still the standard 1.4" comp driver though, that I promise.
I gaurantee the driver they use is standard from the factory.
Sorry I do not. I had a pair for several months for testing in a studio and did several measurements. The engineer and I stripped them to see if there was any pixy dust going on inside and noticed nothing special. The only thing we both regret was not measuring the crossover components. One thing we both agreed on was how effortlessly they played all kinds of music.
The best combination that we heard them on in the end was a 350watt per channel Perreaux Audio Power amp and a Audio Research Ref5 Pre. The valve pre really helped the top end for smoothness and the power amp made these speakers scary dynamic at times. Roger Waters "Its a Miracle"
was something else. Everyone that heard them in my listening room was shocked and in Awe at how powerful the system played. Simply stunning!!!
From which speaker are these measurements?
We see about 12dB descent from 90Hz down turning into 18dB from 50Hz on. No bass fundament at all... The frequency response taken only at 80dB Level... Huge break-up modes at HF. A very strong beaming with deep holes. The distortion curves end at 5k while fr response is shown up to 40k - why? The answer might be the steep increase of distortions at the right side.
I would not waste any money in such a design in the sense of this thread searching for a reference Monitor design.