Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Analogue Source Turntables, Tonearms, Cartridges, Phono Stages, Tuners, Tape Recorders, etc.

A Revolutionary Pivoting Tangential Tone Arm
A Revolutionary Pivoting Tangential Tone Arm
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 21st October 2018, 09:14 AM   #121
nocdplz is offline nocdplz
diyAudio Member
 
nocdplz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: italy
This arm is so full of small and big ideas, skills and experience that it is amusing and instructive trying to understand something. Long time ago one of my teachers said that words are no good design tools so here is a graph for the "strange offset" problem (attachment)

Imho:
- the mini parallel arm (then the stylus) has no offset = 0 tracking error, 0 skating, almost 0 stylus bending (far less than his big brothers, due the shortest possible eff. lenght)
- the servo PLT has 10░- 12 ░ offset (half of a Baerwald) and an horizontal pivot angled the same, like a Rega. As the offset generates side force (skating = side force less the friction on hor. pivot) maybe here just a bit is used to facilitate the rotation. All these solicitations are dealt and held inside the servo PLT.
- H + V pivots follow a circle in FP - the guide pivot a curvilinear cam: similar to the LT, and others called "non Birch" in my simulations on Dd thread.
True? who knows, this arm is so devious...

carlo
Ralf: a claim for selling, about the "separation" plus : buy one, get two! :-))
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 10░ offset.jpg (126.2 KB, 366 views)

Last edited by nocdplz; 21st October 2018 at 09:17 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st October 2018, 09:34 AM   #122
Straight Tracker is offline Straight Tracker  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Prescott, Arizona
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtut View Post
Ralf, one non-technical, and slightly personal, thing I'm curious about: When and where did your "aha" moments occur?
Hello Doug,

I don't remember a specific "aha" moment. I resumed my work on tone arms in 2010 after a thirty year pause. Sometime in 2010 after I had made a new prototype, that floating head-shell popped into my mind and I made a CAD drawing of it sitting on top of its cradle with a short piece of tone arm tubing attached to it. I think the reason there was no particular "aha" moment, was the fact that I thought it to be "off the wall" and I had no idea how it would work or why it would work. So if anything happened at all, it was a low level "aha' moment. It wasn't an instant stroke of genius, but an effort that took a number of years to refine. However, the aha moment is occurring now, and it is not a moment but an ongoing occurrence. I've been listening to all of my favorite LPs for several months now and all I can say is that, if there were a cloud higher than cloud nine, I would be on it. And last but not least, considering all the kind comments I've gotten, make that cloud ninety.

Sincerely,

Ralf

Last edited by Straight Tracker; 21st October 2018 at 09:36 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2018, 09:06 AM   #123
nocdplz is offline nocdplz
diyAudio Member
 
nocdplz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: italy
strange offset - errata corrige

Further investigating I discovered that it is not (only) a problem of side-force: it is more a problem of geometry, innovative and advantageous.
I do not post these new graphs, maybe I have already exaggerated with "reverse engineering" and I apologize to Ralf: there are already too many copycats around.

carlo
this arm is always surprising
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd October 2018, 03:29 PM   #124
diyrayk is offline diyrayk  United States
diyAudio Member
 
diyrayk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Traverse City, MI
Ralf,

How does it deal with the runout groove at the end of the record?
Does the servo keep up?
?

Ray K
__________________
If more is better, then too much is just right.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2018, 09:53 AM   #125
Straight Tracker is offline Straight Tracker  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Prescott, Arizona
Quote:
Originally Posted by nocdplz View Post
strange offset - errata corrige

Further investigating I discovered that it is not (only) a problem of side-force: it is more a problem of geometry, innovative and advantageous.
I do not post these new graphs, maybe I have already exaggerated with "reverse engineering" and I apologize to Ralf: there are already too many copycats around.

carlo
this arm is always surprising
Hello Carlo,

Thank you, and there is no need to apologize.

I should have a video ready later in the week.

Sincerely,

Ralf
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd October 2018, 10:03 AM   #126
Straight Tracker is offline Straight Tracker  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Prescott, Arizona
Quote:
Originally Posted by diyrayk View Post
Ralf,

How does it deal with the runout groove at the end of the record?
Does the servo keep up?


Ray K
Hello Ray K,

The run_out groove turns into a circle at ~ R2.080" and my tone arm follows it just fine, no issues.
Remember, the servo does not "drive" the tone arm, it just relaxes its hold_back. Sort of like restraining a dog with one of those spring loaded dog leashes. If you want him to go, you just push a button.

As mentioned above, I should have a video ready by the end of the week.

Sincerely,

Ralf

Last edited by Straight Tracker; 23rd October 2018 at 10:10 AM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2018, 03:52 PM   #127
gninnam is offline gninnam  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Hi Ralf

Liking the project - managed to do the video yet?

R's

Andy
  Reply With Quote
Old 8th November 2018, 08:15 PM   #128
Straight Tracker is offline Straight Tracker  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Prescott, Arizona
Hello Andy,

I am sorry for the delay. Shooting a video is not as easy as I thought it was.
I managed to shoot two videos, the links to which I'll post in less than two days. One shows the head-shell in action and it is of acceptable quality and the other one shows the tone arm overall on my Micro Seiki turn-table but it is blurry. Today, I'll shoot that one over again, now that I've learned how to set the ISO speed of my video camera to a higher setting.

See you soon,

Ralf

Last edited by Straight Tracker; 8th November 2018 at 08:17 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 12th November 2018, 04:30 PM   #129
gninnam is offline gninnam  United Kingdom
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Straight Tracker View Post
Hello Andy,

I am sorry for the delay. Shooting a video is not as easy as I thought it was.
I managed to shoot two videos, the links to which I'll post in less than two days. One shows the head-shell in action and it is of acceptable quality and the other one shows the tone arm overall on my Micro Seiki turn-table but it is blurry. Today, I'll shoot that one over again, now that I've learned how to set the ISO speed of my video camera to a higher setting.

See you soon,

Ralf
No need to apologies
Hope you manage to get something together so we can understand and see how it all works when used.

Cheers

Andy
  Reply With Quote
Old Yesterday, 09:24 PM   #130
Straight Tracker is offline Straight Tracker  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Prescott, Arizona
Default Videos (better late than never)

Hello All,

I am finally able to post two videos. Not being in possession of video recording equipment, I borrowed a canon digital elf from a friend and spent the next three weeks learning to use it. I managed to make two videos that won't win me any Oscars but they'll get the point across. One video shows the tone arm overall on my Micro Seiki turn table and the other video is a close up of the interaction between the head-shell and the cradle. Because tone arm motion is so slow, I chose a 12"/45 RPM/single LP for the videos. The overall video is useful to observe the motion of the support arm as it carries the tone arm's pivot through its arc. In the close-up I can be seen, jostling the cradle three times with a cotton swab to illustrate how the head-shell stubbornly follows the groove, ignoring any disturbances the cradle might cause. And for you Ray K, please watch the tone arm in the run-out grooves.

The fluctuating numbers on the multimeter's display, show the number of milliamps of current passing through the servo motor coils. Even though the tone arm is finished, I monitor that number to make sure that the tone arm continues to function correctly.


Sincerely,

Ralf

YouTube

YouTube

The attachment manager did't work, so I pasted the links into the reply.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


A Revolutionary Pivoting Tangential Tone ArmHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Potential new revolutionary panel speaker Chris8sirhC Planars & Exotics 0 24th October 2017 07:19 PM
My 1980's Tangential Tone Arm and my 2010 improvement Straight Tracker Analogue Source 143 17th March 2015 01:37 AM
Pivoting TV-stand/HT-sub/stealth corner ▀art West-VL. Subwoofers 74 17th March 2013 05:07 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:25 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2018 diyAudio
Wiki