" Completely unconsciously, I was cuing my wife that Something Changed
and that I was Seriously Evaluating. And being that she liked to say things that made me happy because of the positive feedback to her, her response to those two cuts was to say something nice about the sound."
Her survival instinct kicking in
and that I was Seriously Evaluating. And being that she liked to say things that made me happy because of the positive feedback to her, her response to those two cuts was to say something nice about the sound."
Her survival instinct kicking in
Measurements are part of TI datasheet. Unfortunately I do not have the proper mean to record audio file with high fidelity from an opamp output.
I suggest that you get free samples from TI and try it in your own circuit.
My goal here is not to convince peoples by study but to simply open their mind to try something simple. As for anything I expect some peoples not hearing a difference for the reasons mentioned earlier. However, I also expect that many peoples would hear the differences between the 2 “similar” opamps I have indicated.
Is there anybody claiming that all (audio) opamps sound the same ?
I believe that this thread original goal was to describe the performance of the NE5532 opamp and not conclude more than that .... but peoples started to interpret the results...
Maybe we are hijacking this thread and if so I am sorry for that...
Fab
I suggest that you get free samples from TI and try it in your own circuit.
My goal here is not to convince peoples by study but to simply open their mind to try something simple. As for anything I expect some peoples not hearing a difference for the reasons mentioned earlier. However, I also expect that many peoples would hear the differences between the 2 “similar” opamps I have indicated.
Is there anybody claiming that all (audio) opamps sound the same ?
I believe that this thread original goal was to describe the performance of the NE5532 opamp and not conclude more than that ....
but peoples started to interpret the results...Maybe we are hijacking this thread and if so I am sorry for that...
Fab
Last edited:
Who knows? The chain made me think of mixing desks and how what you are listening to has probably already been through even more NE5532s than that.I believe that this thread original goal was to describe the performance of the NE5532 opamp and not conclude more than that ....
Maybe we are hijacking this thread and if so I am sorry for that...
One might argue that dishonesty is not a question of degree, but rather one of intent. But it does raise an interesting question.
Given that last set of graphs came from a signal that went through a dozen op-amps in series, I am truly impressed. If I could have gotten that kind of results from some of my 1970s and 80s audio designs I would have called a press conference.
" Completely unconsciously, I was cuing my wife that Something Changed
and that I was Seriously Evaluating. And being that she liked to say things that made me happy because of the positive feedback to her, her response to those two cuts was to say something nice about the sound."
Her survival instinct kicking in
I forget where I read it but apparently when doing "Which do you like better" there's a subconscious tendency to show/play/display the "better" option last cuing your test subject to pick the right one.
Is there anybody claiming that all (audio) opamps sound the same ?
Ok, I'll bite (knowing I might regret it). I will suggest that when two amplifiers display similar frequency response, noise levels, distortions, etc. they will indeed sound the same.
Maybe we are hijacking this thread and if so I am sorry for that...
Yeah, that would actually be my fault... Sorry Mark.
I have been at several occasions where the 'shootout' was done by playing two tracks A and B on two DUTs in AB-BA fashion.
Looking back at the results, overwhelmingly A won, on unrelated occasions, even with different type of DUTs (amps, record players, speakers).
Knowing this, in one occasion I was able to arrange things to my advantage making me the winner of 8 competitors ;-)
Jan
Well, maybe not ALL. A 741 and an OPA1656 most likely sound different. But I would venture to say that it is VERY difficult to distinguish between the BEST available. Maybe even between an NE5534 and anything else out there.Is there anybody claiming that all (audio) opamps sound the same ?
Opamps were originally developed as convenient blocks of controllable gain which is achieved through negative feedback. You take two opamps, lets say a 741 and an opa1656 per your example, set them up in a "gain of 10" block... you now have two circuits both with extremely low distortion and frequency response flat to nearly a megahertz, how different can they possibly be?
Some of us on here (diyAudio) did some 'listening tests' where readers could try and identify which opamp they were listening to. Although the files are long gone, you might find the reading interesting. There have been others to, notably by member PMA who produces high technical quality files.
ULTIMATE OPAMP SHOOTOUT... Where you get to decide.
And although unrelated, as an LTspice user you might find this interesting:
Welcome to the (virtual) listening room.
ULTIMATE OPAMP SHOOTOUT... Where you get to decide.
And although unrelated, as an LTspice user you might find this interesting:
Welcome to the (virtual) listening room.
The noise floor of the 741 would likely be the give away. I repaired a line level mixer many years ago that used 741s and the noise floor was quite poor, but probably ok for playing the tapes and vinyl of the day.
I was lucky that I survived the first couple rounds. Then there were 4 left and we could put our names on the schedule and I took an 'A' slot. Won that round, now we were two left. I was in the A position. The other guy came to me with a story that he needed more time between tracks (this was a recording-replay contest) due to broken tape, and would I let him go 'A'. I looked at him and I realized he knew too, so I said I'd be happy with the way it was. Upset him mightily, and he lost.
But there was more to it. The recording was from a live trio (violin, piano and French horn). During the rehearsals I noticed that listeners reacted almost bodily to a particular sequence where the violin and horn faded to silence, and a few seconds later the piano very softly and emotionally came back.
We had to record two sequences, one mandatory and the other free choice, and for the latter I chose the one I just described.
Piece of cake, the other guys never had a chance
Once you figure out how perception works, you can pretty much get any result you want, especially with participants that think they have magic ears. Unless it is double blind.
Jan
Way back on my first big DIY in the late 1970s I build a pre-amp loaded stem to stern with 741s ... phono, 9 band EQ, tape loops ... no problem.
Yes, 12 in a row might expose the noise. Although I wouldn't use them today, one on one beside other opamps, I suspect the 741 would still hold it's own for most audio uses.
Last edited: