The digital board should be on the bottom and the corner holes of the digital board should line up with the corner and center mounting holes of the analog board. with the long connector header pins going from the top of digital board to the bottom of the analog board. The 3/4" standoffs between the boards allows space to install and remove the ribbon cables. See post 287 for the build instructions.
Hey Roy,
Actually I didn't use a connector on the back side of the analog board. The header pins stick up through the board and I solder them after everything is known working. But if you want to use a connector you can use 929850-01-12-RA and 929850-01-02-RA. If you are building multiple boards it is cheaper to buy and extra 929850-01-12-RA and cut 2 pins worth off it. If you use the connector on the back side of the analog board then you will have to replace the 3/4" standoffs with 1" standoffs, Mouse p/n 761-2254-632-AL. I will add these to the BOM also.
BTW, I received my order of EEPROMs today so I have some to program.
Actually I didn't use a connector on the back side of the analog board. The header pins stick up through the board and I solder them after everything is known working. But if you want to use a connector you can use 929850-01-12-RA and 929850-01-02-RA. If you are building multiple boards it is cheaper to buy and extra 929850-01-12-RA and cut 2 pins worth off it. If you use the connector on the back side of the analog board then you will have to replace the 3/4" standoffs with 1" standoffs, Mouse p/n 761-2254-632-AL. I will add these to the BOM also.
BTW, I received my order of EEPROMs today so I have some to program.
Thanks John,
I am in Pittsburg until Friday and have been working with a gerber reader and the BOM. I don't have the actual boards are parts in hand to test fit it.
Because the header pin length was listed as slightly less than 3/4" it appeared that the headers would stop just short of the holes. It is clear that the 18.3mm was after the body of the header and the actual reach of the header will be longer than 3/4' necessary to reach through the holes. I have a Mouser order almost complete so I will go ahead and pick the parts up and try it both ways. I'm sure I will get a better connection during testing if I use the connectors rather than the blank pins. I am going to pick up the resistors necessary to complete a attenuation section on an extra board with primarily CCM60 values and send it on to you for testing as you seem to have the better system and sound room. It would be nice to find a more affordable option.
Regards,
Roy
I am in Pittsburg until Friday and have been working with a gerber reader and the BOM. I don't have the actual boards are parts in hand to test fit it.
Because the header pin length was listed as slightly less than 3/4" it appeared that the headers would stop just short of the holes. It is clear that the 18.3mm was after the body of the header and the actual reach of the header will be longer than 3/4' necessary to reach through the holes. I have a Mouser order almost complete so I will go ahead and pick the parts up and try it both ways. I'm sure I will get a better connection during testing if I use the connectors rather than the blank pins. I am going to pick up the resistors necessary to complete a attenuation section on an extra board with primarily CCM60 values and send it on to you for testing as you seem to have the better system and sound room. It would be nice to find a more affordable option.
Regards,
Roy
The header pins are 18.29mm or .72" but .1 base so .82 height, so .75" standoff leaves enough to just poke through a 1/16" thick PCB. Not sure how far the pins will go into the socket so you may and to adjust the 1" standoff length. Connectors are good for testing but a solder joint is reliable for the long term. Used to service Apple II and III which socketed the chips, not reliable.
My system is now to the point of resolution that I can hear differences in interconnects, never could before. Equipment is:
Denon DP-80 turntable on a PBN Audio Plinth, used my Zebra wood board. Beautiful.
SME V tonearm, Koetsu Rosewood Signature cartridge.
Liberty Audio phono preamp.
Rotel CD player
Tandberg TD20A Reel to Reel
Pass Aleph P preamp or my copy using my attenuator.
Threshold SA/1 amps with Massive power supply rebuild. DC blockers on the AC.
PBN Audio Sammy loudspeakers - Beautiful, physically and sonically.
Dedicated soundroom with in-room power panel, heavy copper lines to the main panel and 10 gauge romex to outlets. 18' x 24' vaulted room. Walls are 2x6 studs, rock wool for R23, struc1 ply, 2" poly foam board, R13, with 1/x2 furring and 1/2" wood siding, triple glazed windows. No Sound or heat gets in or out, unless I want it to.
I will test your Analog board, I may have to build up another digital board to do so.
My system is now to the point of resolution that I can hear differences in interconnects, never could before. Equipment is:
Denon DP-80 turntable on a PBN Audio Plinth, used my Zebra wood board. Beautiful.
SME V tonearm, Koetsu Rosewood Signature cartridge.
Liberty Audio phono preamp.
Rotel CD player
Tandberg TD20A Reel to Reel
Pass Aleph P preamp or my copy using my attenuator.
Threshold SA/1 amps with Massive power supply rebuild. DC blockers on the AC.
PBN Audio Sammy loudspeakers - Beautiful, physically and sonically.
Dedicated soundroom with in-room power panel, heavy copper lines to the main panel and 10 gauge romex to outlets. 18' x 24' vaulted room. Walls are 2x6 studs, rock wool for R23, struc1 ply, 2" poly foam board, R13, with 1/x2 furring and 1/2" wood siding, triple glazed windows. No Sound or heat gets in or out, unless I want it to.
I will test your Analog board, I may have to build up another digital board to do so.
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So we were talking about the cost of relays the other day, besides the resistors, they are a significant cost at $3.07 each. Mouser is selling a relay that is going end of life for about half the cost, saving a bit of money. 551-EC2-4.5NJ is the same relay but with a 4.5v coil voltage vs 5v and I have tested them and work fine. They are also trimmed leads which is fine, so for $1.55 each it is a deal.
John,
We might want to test whether we could get 10 people who wanted a set of boards and kits, particularly if you find no deterioration in the sound of the CCF60 resistors. The 250 level on those relays is very enticing.
I an getting enough parts in to start validating your published version of the BOM. For the Power Supply board the J2 Digi-Key part number is incorrect and the correct version is only special order in lots of 50.
Also, I received the input conn housings that you suggested (571-179228-3) and noticed that they need a pin insert. Do you have that part number?
I should be getting the 3.1 version Analogue Boards in sometime this week and will send them along with the CCF60 Resister mix. You might as well do your listening on the new board.
I will also get you the three main and display boards out on Monday so you can use your high end soldering system to remove the relays and the display modules. I'm sure I have your address somewhere in my PMs, I just have to dig it out. Also if you could put 3 on the custom eproms in the return and let me know their cost along with shipping I will PayPal it to you.
Regards,
Roy
We might want to test whether we could get 10 people who wanted a set of boards and kits, particularly if you find no deterioration in the sound of the CCF60 resistors. The 250 level on those relays is very enticing.
I an getting enough parts in to start validating your published version of the BOM. For the Power Supply board the J2 Digi-Key part number is incorrect and the correct version is only special order in lots of 50.
Also, I received the input conn housings that you suggested (571-179228-3) and noticed that they need a pin insert. Do you have that part number?
I should be getting the 3.1 version Analogue Boards in sometime this week and will send them along with the CCF60 Resister mix. You might as well do your listening on the new board.
I will also get you the three main and display boards out on Monday so you can use your high end soldering system to remove the relays and the display modules. I'm sure I have your address somewhere in my PMs, I just have to dig it out. Also if you could put 3 on the custom eproms in the return and let me know their cost along with shipping I will PayPal it to you.
Regards,
Roy
Hmm, I pull up the Digikey part number and see 276 in stock with manufacturer part number of 1716040000.
I am surprised the connector did not come with the sockets. I am not seeing them separate. You might want to call Mouser and ask the customer support about that.
Ok, let me know if you need an address.
EEPROMs are $8 each plus shipping, but you with have one box of boards and parts so we'll have to see what shipping costs.
I am surprised the connector did not come with the sockets. I am not seeing them separate. You might want to call Mouser and ask the customer support about that.
Ok, let me know if you need an address.
EEPROMs are $8 each plus shipping, but you with have one box of boards and parts so we'll have to see what shipping costs.
John,
I wonder if we are looking at the same BOM? I believe I am using the latest "DigitalVolumeControlEncoderV3". In my version the manufacturer part number for J2 on the PS board is listed as 1985946, not the 1716040000. For Mouser it brings up the proper part. The Digi-Key part number is 281-1449-ND and it brings up your 276 copies of manufacture part number 1716040000. Unfortunately, this is what appears to be a surface mount, not a through hole version of the connector. If you use the listed manufactures' number of 1985946 on the Digi-Key site it will bring up the proper part but it is non-stocked and must be ordered in lots of at least 50.
Another issue is the two 8 x 2 headers that connect The digital and display boards: J2 & J3 on the display and J1 & J2 digital board. The part is out of stock. I would suggest as a replacement TSW-104-07-L-D. The only difference is that the termination post is slightly longer at 2.54mm vs 2.29mm. Also the Digi-Key part number is for the 24 pin ISC ribbon cable end socket, which not only isn't a header, it isn't the proper number of pins for the end socket.
Further, the 16 pin ISC ribbon cable end socket is the part number for an 8 pin version (4 x 2) on the digital board and not listed at all on the display board. The proper manufactures' number is 71600-216LF and you will need 4, 2 for each board.
Regards,
Roy
I wonder if we are looking at the same BOM? I believe I am using the latest "DigitalVolumeControlEncoderV3". In my version the manufacturer part number for J2 on the PS board is listed as 1985946, not the 1716040000. For Mouser it brings up the proper part. The Digi-Key part number is 281-1449-ND and it brings up your 276 copies of manufacture part number 1716040000. Unfortunately, this is what appears to be a surface mount, not a through hole version of the connector. If you use the listed manufactures' number of 1985946 on the Digi-Key site it will bring up the proper part but it is non-stocked and must be ordered in lots of at least 50.
Another issue is the two 8 x 2 headers that connect The digital and display boards: J2 & J3 on the display and J1 & J2 digital board. The part is out of stock. I would suggest as a replacement TSW-104-07-L-D. The only difference is that the termination post is slightly longer at 2.54mm vs 2.29mm. Also the Digi-Key part number is for the 24 pin ISC ribbon cable end socket, which not only isn't a header, it isn't the proper number of pins for the end socket.
Further, the 16 pin ISC ribbon cable end socket is the part number for an 8 pin version (4 x 2) on the digital board and not listed at all on the display board. The proper manufactures' number is 71600-216LF and you will need 4, 2 for each board.
Regards,
Roy
John,
We were discussing a connector that would fit the input pinout spacing and you provided a part number for the headers and the com holder. Just wanted to let you know that the pins are a separate line item and you would need 3 for each com holder or 3 x 12 or 36 if you populated all six inputs. They are out of stock until late January at Mouser and while Digi-Key has a small number left (170) they are $0.825 at the 25 unit level. This works out to $33 for 40. Add the cost of the header and com housing and it comes to around $40, and they are not even gold plated, only tin. Suggest that you change the connector spacing on your next analog board revision. A more standard 2.54 mm would provide far less expensive connectivity options.
Regards,
Roy
We were discussing a connector that would fit the input pinout spacing and you provided a part number for the headers and the com holder. Just wanted to let you know that the pins are a separate line item and you would need 3 for each com holder or 3 x 12 or 36 if you populated all six inputs. They are out of stock until late January at Mouser and while Digi-Key has a small number left (170) they are $0.825 at the 25 unit level. This works out to $33 for 40. Add the cost of the header and com housing and it comes to around $40, and they are not even gold plated, only tin. Suggest that you change the connector spacing on your next analog board revision. A more standard 2.54 mm would provide far less expensive connectivity options.
Regards,
Roy
John,
You could go back to the original configuration with two single ended inputs and four balanced or even reduce the number of inputs. How many people really need 6 analog inputs in this mostly digital age?
By the way, I just checked out the fit of J1 & J2 on the analog board and the headers fit easily in with a 1" spacer. Also, I would suggest part number 36-2212-ND for the 1" spacer it's less than 1/3 of the cost of the Mouser part you suggested. $0.76 Q1 vs $3.21 Q1.
Thanks,
Roy
You could go back to the original configuration with two single ended inputs and four balanced or even reduce the number of inputs. How many people really need 6 analog inputs in this mostly digital age?
By the way, I just checked out the fit of J1 & J2 on the analog board and the headers fit easily in with a 1" spacer. Also, I would suggest part number 36-2212-ND for the 1" spacer it's less than 1/3 of the cost of the Mouser part you suggested. $0.76 Q1 vs $3.21 Q1.
Thanks,
Roy
The problem with doing a BOM is materials changing, stocking, and typos. I have updated the BOM again.
The stand-off between the boards, 3/4" or 1", need to be Male/Female but the end 2 at the board overhang, 1 1/2" can be a different part number which is much cheaper.
I will look at the input connectors and board layout tonight.
The stand-off between the boards, 3/4" or 1", need to be Male/Female but the end 2 at the board overhang, 1 1/2" can be a different part number which is much cheaper.
I will look at the input connectors and board layout tonight.
John,
You know that no good deed goes unpunished.
We talked about version management a while ago and I still recommend putting the most current version of everything at the bottom of the first post. That seems to have become something of a convention on the forum. For the foreseeable future we are going to have to live with stock outages.
I suspect that when you have a valid up-to-date part in the BOM you don't change it if it is out of stock. You put a note at the bottom of the 1st post with optional parts if they are available. This can be more dynamic while the BOM only changes with design changes or parts going obsolete.
Regards,
Roy
You know that no good deed goes unpunished.
We talked about version management a while ago and I still recommend putting the most current version of everything at the bottom of the first post. That seems to have become something of a convention on the forum. For the foreseeable future we are going to have to live with stock outages.
I suspect that when you have a valid up-to-date part in the BOM you don't change it if it is out of stock. You put a note at the bottom of the 1st post with optional parts if they are available. This can be more dynamic while the BOM only changes with design changes or parts going obsolete.
Regards,
Roy
I was just able to squeeze the larger pitch headers onto the board. Also I put in trace jumpers for the input to volume section between the Vias, that saves adding 4 jumpers but if you want to use input to gain to volume then you just cut the 4 trace jumpers. I am calling this analog board 1.2 gerbers.
Also while working on it I found an error on the V1.1 board. On the back side at the end of the input relays, 2 vias that were added just touch a signal trace so a bit of trimming with an xacto knife is required.
I will update the BOM again with the new input header and connectors.
And I will update the original post with at least the post numbers of where to find what in the latest info.
Also while working on it I found an error on the V1.1 board. On the back side at the end of the input relays, 2 vias that were added just touch a signal trace so a bit of trimming with an xacto knife is required.
I will update the BOM again with the new input header and connectors.
And I will update the original post with at least the post numbers of where to find what in the latest info.
John,
That’s fabulous work! Can’t believe how quickly you turned that around. I received my 3.1a boards yesterday and confirmed the trace problem you found. It should be easy to resolve. I guess we can call the new version you just finished 3.1b.
I am getting greedy. I was looking at the 3.1a boards carefully and thinking about what would make it easier to use and more accessible to people just starting out in DIY or coming back to a project after some time. One thing that would help would be to label the polarity of the connectors. I have found that placing the label outside of where a connector would fit allows someone to tell polarity at a glare rather than having to stop and figure it out. Also, the new connectors for attenuation before or after amplification should be labeled in and out. I see the new version (3.1b) defaults to having them shorted, which I think is wise.
Another change that would be helpful would be to include a ground with the two + and – connection holes. Ideally it would have the same form factor as the existing attenuation outputs so the same connectors could be used.
Also, I have all the parts for the cheaper resister set test and wondered which analog boards you would like to go with them 3.0 or 3.1a. I have packed up the 3 main and display boards and have plenty of extra space. It looks like I will not be using my five 3.0 analog boards and two of the others in the 3.0 package. You are welcome to them along with a couple of 3.1a analog boards. Sell them or give them away, your choice. I am not sure yet if I will be using 3.1a given the new version 3.1b. Hopefully, there will be a 3.1c and I might wait for that.
Regards,
Roy
That’s fabulous work! Can’t believe how quickly you turned that around. I received my 3.1a boards yesterday and confirmed the trace problem you found. It should be easy to resolve. I guess we can call the new version you just finished 3.1b.
I am getting greedy
. I was looking at the 3.1a boards carefully and thinking about what would make it easier to use and more accessible to people just starting out in DIY or coming back to a project after some time. One thing that would help would be to label the polarity of the connectors. I have found that placing the label outside of where a connector would fit allows someone to tell polarity at a glare rather than having to stop and figure it out. Also, the new connectors for attenuation before or after amplification should be labeled in and out. I see the new version (3.1b) defaults to having them shorted, which I think is wise.Another change that would be helpful would be to include a ground with the two + and – connection holes. Ideally it would have the same form factor as the existing attenuation outputs so the same connectors could be used.
Also, I have all the parts for the cheaper resister set test and wondered which analog boards you would like to go with them 3.0 or 3.1a. I have packed up the 3 main and display boards and have plenty of extra space. It looks like I will not be using my five 3.0 analog boards and two of the others in the 3.0 package. You are welcome to them along with a couple of 3.1a analog boards. Sell them or give them away, your choice. I am not sure yet if I will be using 3.1a given the new version 3.1b. Hopefully, there will be a 3.1c
and I might wait for that.Regards,
Roy