Finally got around to firing up REW and took a quick measurement.
The SPL and Phase plots are as you'd expect similar enough to Hornresp to my untrained eye.
Here's a Spectrum graph, measurement taken at 1m
Does it show anything / anything good?
As a complete REW noob I've no idea what I'm doing really, yet - always willing to try to lean🙂
The SPL and Phase plots are as you'd expect similar enough to Hornresp to my untrained eye.
Here's a Spectrum graph, measurement taken at 1m
Does it show anything / anything good?
As a complete REW noob I've no idea what I'm doing really, yet - always willing to try to lean🙂
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@Speedysteve7; I recently came across a post from you referring to the fact that you once took a horn system to the Wam show. Are you going this year? If so then can I encourage you to take your MEHs 😉
I did indeed!
An early passive XO'd version of a 5 way system with conical horn / TH horns.
It was a fun weekend, shifting some 425KGs of gear.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...nd-tweeter-passive-active.189377/post-2934228
Whilst the MEH SH50 alikes are much more portable and a single TH would work in normal sized rooms the distance involved is too great for me to consider these days..
Part of me would love to do it, but ..
The SH50 alikes knock everything else I've tried and heard completely into touch.
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A shame but I understand. It is noteworthy just how many MEH owners say the same thing ie best they have ever heard. These recurring comments have convinced me that I need some MEHs in my life. A speaker designer I hold in high regard is working on an improved version of the MEH design and I think it will be made available for DIYers. I’m not sure he wants this to be public knowledge just yet as its relatively early days, so I don’t feel at liberty to say anymore just now. Suffice to say I’m eagerly awaiting more info . . .
I've been using REW a fair bit.
I like it 🙂
It's amazing how changes to the SPL and phase plots by timing transpire to give different presentations of the music.
Some subtle some not so much.
Some folk would pay $$$$$'s and get less audible changes with amps, DACs, turntables or whatever attempts to sound shape.
Recently I tried no XO on the LFs again. Was BW1 at 325 before.
Phase is even flatter!
I had tried no XO before, but sometimes it's interesting to revisit.
I find now that without a BW1, even with lots of PEQs to kill off the stray higher frequencies, there's still a noise floor from the LFs where there shouldn't be.
It's subtle but there.
I can only kill off at -24dB and measurements show the play through at around 3400Hz and to a lesser extent arrive 7000Hz.
Here's my current favourite sounding SPL / phase plot.
LH side
And I've still got EQ wizard and maybe VituixCAD to go yet! 🙂
I like it 🙂
It's amazing how changes to the SPL and phase plots by timing transpire to give different presentations of the music.
Some subtle some not so much.
Some folk would pay $$$$$'s and get less audible changes with amps, DACs, turntables or whatever attempts to sound shape.
Recently I tried no XO on the LFs again. Was BW1 at 325 before.
Phase is even flatter!
I had tried no XO before, but sometimes it's interesting to revisit.
I find now that without a BW1, even with lots of PEQs to kill off the stray higher frequencies, there's still a noise floor from the LFs where there shouldn't be.
It's subtle but there.
I can only kill off at -24dB and measurements show the play through at around 3400Hz and to a lesser extent arrive 7000Hz.
Here's my current favourite sounding SPL / phase plot.
LH side
And I've still got EQ wizard and maybe VituixCAD to go yet! 🙂
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First prototype grille done.
It's deep thin surround so it just push fit hugs the square of the cab around the outside.
Gives a different look anyway.
Hopefully our not at all curious cat will leave it alone, or I'll just shut the door to the loft room.
Do the other one tomorrow.
It's deep thin surround so it just push fit hugs the square of the cab around the outside.
Gives a different look anyway.
Hopefully our not at all curious cat will leave it alone, or I'll just shut the door to the loft room.
Do the other one tomorrow.
Both done.
Bit of a tricky job but the effect is nice I think.
Wife likes them so that's half the battle 🙂
Might get a chance to listen with them in place maybe tonight depending how long the US Open 🎾 tennis goes on for.
Starts 7pm here..
Fritz🇺🇸 or Sinner🇮🇹?
Bit of a tricky job but the effect is nice I think.
Wife likes them so that's half the battle 🙂
Might get a chance to listen with them in place maybe tonight depending how long the US Open 🎾 tennis goes on for.
Starts 7pm here..
Fritz🇺🇸 or Sinner🇮🇹?
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Thanks.
The SH50 style cabs go to 60Hz flat, 55 / 50 a few dB down.
They are however resting on 2 Volvotreter style, 2.4m tall tapped horns (lying down),
firing upwards - optimum in room.
The tapped horns are really good crossed in at 60Hz 4th order.
Just the right tunefulness / room shaker ability.
They were never that happy playing up to 90 or 100Hz, didn't have the punch.
The SH50s do bass and kick etc better than any of my straight front loaded midbass horns.
I've had 15" driver conicals, 15" driver exponentials, 12" longer exponentials.
To do 60Hz from straight FL horn, you need huge, biggest I've built were 1.7m long (~70Hz lowest).
Still didn't kick line these.
2x12" per cab really work!
Looks pretty neat! And ofcourse practical🙏. But ultimately it’s like any other speakergrill, without it looks more pretty!
Yeah true!
It's nice to have an alternative look though.
The day before the hall demo arrived.
Had help lifting the 55kg each horns down the stairs from the music loft and into the car.
They just fitted in.
The trapezoidal shape was the enabler.
Tapped horn sub in behind them.
4 amps, Najda DSP XO, cables, measuring mic, plus 2 spare amps and a spare Najda fitted around them and in the front seat area.
Once arrived & unloaded (I'd put wheels on the Sub and it proved useful as a trolly to ferry the SH50s across a 40m run of smooth tarmac (thank heavens) and in.
Used a couple of half sized tables to put the horns on.
Nice medium sized hall. Not too clappy thanks to carpet and shape / height.
All wired up.
Our streamers require Lan connection.
The super fast WiFi on offer wasn't going to help.
Organiser Martin had brought his 4G router (he uses at home for hifi streaming) and sims by 2 different cellular providers.
Neither have a adequate connection for the streamers.
Out in the sticks coverage is still bad.
We located the 900mbps router and by 'stealing' the Hive heating system connection we were up and running.
Otherwise we would have been limited to CDs😱
The setup
Initially had the horns away from the walls
Tried the sub in various positions, settling for rear right corner.
Then we moved the horns out wide.
This improved the imaging.
The sound was very even throughout the hall, even with the horns not that high up.
I did a quick measurement and took away the global -10dB cut at 30Hz, I have to have in my room at home.
This brought the deep bass I'm used to into play.
Still just tickling the volume control with this setup.
At home I play with Najda at around -22 to -25dB on the master volume.
In the hall it was comfortable at -20 to -12 on some very quiet tracks.
The bass amps
EL84 set amps for the MF and HF.
Martin's power regen and hi end Sonore Ultrarendu Signature SE streamer etc
It was clear the rig would play PA dance floor volumes with ease.
One of the beasts
I tweaked the HF and LF a little to suit the room acoustics.
Would take longer than the time we had to get it optimised and with folk there listening had to be done on the fly.
Najda is great for that..
More hifi interested folk turned up than I expected.
Played lots of requests from Qobuz.
The time flew by.
Packed up and drove home.
Got it all unloaded and set up again, and was listening by Sunday evening.
To get the horns back upstairs I took the rear enclosures off.
Carrying up in two parts is relatively easy.
I made some improvements to the wiring and an extra enclosure securing bolt while they were on the floor.
Back to my familiar room sound - I'm really happy with it.
That's probably the last demo hurrah for me!
For a while anyway.
Had help lifting the 55kg each horns down the stairs from the music loft and into the car.
They just fitted in.
The trapezoidal shape was the enabler.
Tapped horn sub in behind them.
4 amps, Najda DSP XO, cables, measuring mic, plus 2 spare amps and a spare Najda fitted around them and in the front seat area.
Once arrived & unloaded (I'd put wheels on the Sub and it proved useful as a trolly to ferry the SH50s across a 40m run of smooth tarmac (thank heavens) and in.
Used a couple of half sized tables to put the horns on.
Nice medium sized hall. Not too clappy thanks to carpet and shape / height.
All wired up.
Our streamers require Lan connection.
The super fast WiFi on offer wasn't going to help.
Organiser Martin had brought his 4G router (he uses at home for hifi streaming) and sims by 2 different cellular providers.
Neither have a adequate connection for the streamers.
Out in the sticks coverage is still bad.
We located the 900mbps router and by 'stealing' the Hive heating system connection we were up and running.
Otherwise we would have been limited to CDs😱
The setup
Initially had the horns away from the walls
Tried the sub in various positions, settling for rear right corner.
Then we moved the horns out wide.
This improved the imaging.
The sound was very even throughout the hall, even with the horns not that high up.
I did a quick measurement and took away the global -10dB cut at 30Hz, I have to have in my room at home.
This brought the deep bass I'm used to into play.
Still just tickling the volume control with this setup.
At home I play with Najda at around -22 to -25dB on the master volume.
In the hall it was comfortable at -20 to -12 on some very quiet tracks.
The bass amps
EL84 set amps for the MF and HF.
Martin's power regen and hi end Sonore Ultrarendu Signature SE streamer etc
It was clear the rig would play PA dance floor volumes with ease.
One of the beasts
I tweaked the HF and LF a little to suit the room acoustics.
Would take longer than the time we had to get it optimised and with folk there listening had to be done on the fly.
Najda is great for that..
More hifi interested folk turned up than I expected.
Played lots of requests from Qobuz.
The time flew by.
Packed up and drove home.
Got it all unloaded and set up again, and was listening by Sunday evening.
To get the horns back upstairs I took the rear enclosures off.
Carrying up in two parts is relatively easy.
I made some improvements to the wiring and an extra enclosure securing bolt while they were on the floor.
Back to my familiar room sound - I'm really happy with it.
That's probably the last demo hurrah for me!
For a while anyway.
Hi Steve
So, what were the reactions from all those HiFi interested folk that turned up. Did they like what they heard?
Steffen
So, what were the reactions from all those HiFi interested folk that turned up. Did they like what they heard?
Steffen
They remarked on the super clear mids and HF, "mids to lose yourself in, was one comment).
That was the difference passive radiators they are used to vs horn loading I guess.
The evenness thoughout the hall was another comment.
Some thought there was a lot of bass 😂
It actually looked and sounded quite even across the frequency range on dynamic music Freq Resp.
That was another comment from someone who measures things.
I would have taken 2 or 3 subs for that hall if I could have🙂
That was the difference passive radiators they are used to vs horn loading I guess.
The evenness thoughout the hall was another comment.
Some thought there was a lot of bass 😂
It actually looked and sounded quite even across the frequency range on dynamic music Freq Resp.
That was another comment from someone who measures things.
I would have taken 2 or 3 subs for that hall if I could have🙂
I didn't have pictures at the time, but as I had the enclosures off I took these.
It's funny they look wider at the rear then they are..
Front the side/above
Fitting over
Almost there
From above.
The big hole is to allow the Vitavox S2 to hang out the back.
The shallower BMS driver fitted inside no problem.
I then fit a round recessed ring around the with a rubbery foam sealing gasket to make it fully airtight.
The 5 flight case handles worked well too.
Update;
After a brief flirtation with the Peerless by Tymphany DFM-2535R00-08 1" driver, I returned to the 1.5" Vitavox S2 drivers.
Just love their sound. More strength and character.
And so it begins.
Project SH60.
Compound cut to give a 60° pyramid.
This is hardwood plywood instead of chipboard.
There will be bitument sheeting 🙂
Gluing up / screwed together, ready for the tap and port drilling tomorrow.
Need to get another 610 X 1220 plywood sheet for the 2nd one.
After a brief flirtation with the Peerless by Tymphany DFM-2535R00-08 1" driver, I returned to the 1.5" Vitavox S2 drivers.
Just love their sound. More strength and character.
And so it begins.
Project SH60.
Compound cut to give a 60° pyramid.
This is hardwood plywood instead of chipboard.
There will be bitument sheeting 🙂
Gluing up / screwed together, ready for the tap and port drilling tomorrow.
Need to get another 610 X 1220 plywood sheet for the 2nd one.
Progressing on.
60° pyramids done. Filler rounds the edges.
Flares on and MF taps dished.
Fancied something other than black.
Wife likes the terracotta...
Bit to do before they are ready to load up with drivers and fit into the existing SH50 rear enclosures.
60° pyramids done. Filler rounds the edges.
Flares on and MF taps dished.
Fancied something other than black.
Wife likes the terracotta...
Bit to do before they are ready to load up with drivers and fit into the existing SH50 rear enclosures.
They are both terracotta now 🙂
Stock take of what's left to do.
1. Mounting rails that support the inner horn against the other enclosure.
Tricky as they taper and it's impossible to measure inside. Will calculate.
2. Sealing edges, rear of horn petals so they compression seal with the rear enclosure.
3. Cover the back of the horn pyramid with sound deadening bitumen.
4. Lift the SH50s form and take the apart.
5. With the horn pyramids fitted drill for the 6 tension bolts that go through the rear enclosure and locate into blind nuts in the horns.
6. Make up bolts of the right length. These will be a bit shorter than the SH50s.
7. Drill for the 4 front mounting screws, horn pyramid to rear enclosure.
8. Nick the drivers off the horn pyramids.
9. Mount the drivers.
10. Wire the drivers up.
11. Check and test
12. Lift up into place.
13. Sit back and listen and swear to never again mess about with them😂... As long as they sound as good as or better than the SH50s!
Stock take of what's left to do.
1. Mounting rails that support the inner horn against the other enclosure.
Tricky as they taper and it's impossible to measure inside. Will calculate.
2. Sealing edges, rear of horn petals so they compression seal with the rear enclosure.
3. Cover the back of the horn pyramid with sound deadening bitumen.
4. Lift the SH50s form and take the apart.
5. With the horn pyramids fitted drill for the 6 tension bolts that go through the rear enclosure and locate into blind nuts in the horns.
6. Make up bolts of the right length. These will be a bit shorter than the SH50s.
7. Drill for the 4 front mounting screws, horn pyramid to rear enclosure.
8. Nick the drivers off the horn pyramids.
9. Mount the drivers.
10. Wire the drivers up.
11. Check and test
12. Lift up into place.
13. Sit back and listen and swear to never again mess about with them😂... As long as they sound as good as or better than the SH50s!
So earlier today I did the following
1. Lift one SH50 down and take apart.
2. Cut and fix mounting rails that support the inner horn against the outer enclosure.
(Not so tricky as I thought as the hole for the S2 to stick out the back of the SH50 is large enough to get in and measure)
3. Mounted the sealing edges on rear of horn petals.
4. Drilled the 6 tension bolts that go through the rear enclosure and locate into blind nuts in the horns.
Hope to get one SH60 working today, but might be tomorrow evening..
1. Lift one SH50 down and take apart.
2. Cut and fix mounting rails that support the inner horn against the outer enclosure.
(Not so tricky as I thought as the hole for the S2 to stick out the back of the SH50 is large enough to get in and measure)
3. Mounted the sealing edges on rear of horn petals.
4. Drilled the 6 tension bolts that go through the rear enclosure and locate into blind nuts in the horns.
Hope to get one SH60 working today, but might be tomorrow evening..