Hi Lorien,
My version of WaveIO card is just prior to the one that is now upgradeable by software. What do I have to change to make it upgradeable? If it is not a BGA type package, then I can manage to replace it by myself without too much trouble. I'm used to smd components rework. Please let me know if it is something you can ship me.
Thanks
Do
My version of WaveIO card is just prior to the one that is now upgradeable by software. What do I have to change to make it upgradeable? If it is not a BGA type package, then I can manage to replace it by myself without too much trouble. I'm used to smd components rework. Please let me know if it is something you can ship me.
Thanks
Do
Updating to 2.24 brings additionnal benefit: it solves my issue where the WaveIO is not detected correctly (to make it short: "unknown device" message) if it is powered up and connected when the computer already runs. This is the same with other USB devices if I connect them when the WaveIO is already connected.
It is very nice to listen to music in those new conditions! I hope that next driver will be the best of 2.23 and 2.24 so everybody will enjoy this superb card.
It is very nice to listen to music in those new conditions! I hope that next driver will be the best of 2.23 and 2.24 so everybody will enjoy this superb card.
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I am also just guessing, but it sounds like a ground loop problem at the system level. My guess is there is something downstream of the usb cable not adequately grounded, so a little current is finding its way to ground via the usb cable. I would try swapping as many things as you can in an effort to zero in on the source. Double check the outlet has proper wiring either with an electricians tool that checks polarity and ground or just by trying a different outlet. Then swap out your PC and put in a different one. If you have a laptop try it powered or on battery. Try a different usb cable. Same approach with the dac. Is your DAC properly grounded? Is WaveIO grounded? Are they all grounded to the same location. Does the USB cable pass tight to ac power cords?
It could be anywhere. I had my WaveIO and dac badly bundled in a case with transformers close to signal wires. My speakers had some hum any time the dac box was powered. I just rebuilt everything with good separation and grounding and the all tube system is now dead quiet, as in can't tell it is powered up.
Question to the WaveIO community.
I just completed a rebuild of my music server and changed many things. It is BBB usb to WaveIO to Ian I2S to PCM card to a TDA1531a Dac. It plays perfectly at 44.1, but at 96k or above the music is there, but also a bunch of static. I am just starting to debug it and looking for ideas. The things that changed were the power supply to WaveIO, change to isolated I2S, and addition of Ian I2S to PCM. Also a different tda1541a card with a different DEM approach.
My question to the WaveIO crowd is if anyone has had a similar symptom, and how it was resolved. I forgot to mention that I drive it with Linux MPD so not related to windows drivers. I thought I saw a comment one time that if WaveIO does not have sufficient current in it's PS, then it might have issues at higher bit rates. I can easily try this. It may have nothing to do with WaveIO. Could be my new I2S to PCM card which is powered by a salas shunt with limited current.
All ideas welcome.
I just completed a rebuild of my music server and changed many things. It is BBB usb to WaveIO to Ian I2S to PCM card to a TDA1531a Dac. It plays perfectly at 44.1, but at 96k or above the music is there, but also a bunch of static. I am just starting to debug it and looking for ideas. The things that changed were the power supply to WaveIO, change to isolated I2S, and addition of Ian I2S to PCM. Also a different tda1541a card with a different DEM approach.
My question to the WaveIO crowd is if anyone has had a similar symptom, and how it was resolved. I forgot to mention that I drive it with Linux MPD so not related to windows drivers. I thought I saw a comment one time that if WaveIO does not have sufficient current in it's PS, then it might have issues at higher bit rates. I can easily try this. It may have nothing to do with WaveIO. Could be my new I2S to PCM card which is powered by a salas shunt with limited current.
All ideas welcome.
Thanks folks, I'll have to do some testing. There's so much stuff all plugged in to two wall sockets there could be a loop forming anywhere (playroom and office...). The dac itself is silent using its coax spdif input, and with the usb cable unplugged, so I can only assume there's something downstream of the usb cable pumping crap as you say. I've always had problems with usb as source in this room.
I received my WaveIO card in October, only 11 days after placing the order. A professionally and well designed card, clean soldering and nice packaging. My compliments and thanks go to Lucian for making this possible to all of us; I'm sure he has spent a large amount of his time on this. I have now used the card for a few months and I'm very happy with it.
In my installation, the WaveIO is fed from a PC with JRiver Media Center and connected to a Buffalo 32s DAC. It worked immediately. So far, I only connected it via the isolated I2S and USB-power. Even with the USB-power, I can hear absolutely no hum or other nasties. The USB cable is a cheap no-name type with less than 1 m length. I tested the setup with music files of 44/16, 44/24, 48/24, 88/24, 96/24, and 192/24. I did not yet find a 176/24 file to test, but I'm confident that this will work as well. However, the system crashed with 352/24, 384/24 and DSD. I'm not sure yet, if this has anything to do with the DAC, the WaveIO or the PC. Thanks for any suggestions.
Switching between drivers v2.23 and v2.24, I could not perceive any change in sound quality. Since the driver change takes a while, there is just too much elapsed time to reliably remember any potential subtle differences.
The following is still on my agenda:
(a) Get an additional, isolated power supply to get rid of the USB-power.
(b) Connect the I2S directly to the DAC with the mini-BNC coaxials (not via the isolater).
(c) Remove the U11 chip.
(d) Try to improve the sound with better power supplies (also in the DAC).
(e) Use the WaveIO clock for the DAC to avoid the clock beating and the ASRC (may limit the DAC to 44/16).
(f) Investigate the data crashes with the high rate signals.
(g) Get a high quality sound card to make some measurements.
As I'm listening to a lot of wonderful music right now, the above is of lower priority. I'm also busy putting more music on my server!
Thanks again Lucian.
In my installation, the WaveIO is fed from a PC with JRiver Media Center and connected to a Buffalo 32s DAC. It worked immediately. So far, I only connected it via the isolated I2S and USB-power. Even with the USB-power, I can hear absolutely no hum or other nasties. The USB cable is a cheap no-name type with less than 1 m length. I tested the setup with music files of 44/16, 44/24, 48/24, 88/24, 96/24, and 192/24. I did not yet find a 176/24 file to test, but I'm confident that this will work as well. However, the system crashed with 352/24, 384/24 and DSD. I'm not sure yet, if this has anything to do with the DAC, the WaveIO or the PC. Thanks for any suggestions.
Switching between drivers v2.23 and v2.24, I could not perceive any change in sound quality. Since the driver change takes a while, there is just too much elapsed time to reliably remember any potential subtle differences.
The following is still on my agenda:
(a) Get an additional, isolated power supply to get rid of the USB-power.
(b) Connect the I2S directly to the DAC with the mini-BNC coaxials (not via the isolater).
(c) Remove the U11 chip.
(d) Try to improve the sound with better power supplies (also in the DAC).
(e) Use the WaveIO clock for the DAC to avoid the clock beating and the ASRC (may limit the DAC to 44/16).
(f) Investigate the data crashes with the high rate signals.
(g) Get a high quality sound card to make some measurements.
As I'm listening to a lot of wonderful music right now, the above is of lower priority. I'm also busy putting more music on my server!
Thanks again Lucian.
Wlowes,
I doubt it is the WaveIO...
When I recall correctly from reading it somewhere in the threads the WaveIO consumes around 340mA when running, maybe higher at startup. I am feeding mine with a Sjostrom Audio reg (SSR01) and never had any issues.
I am on the waiting list for the Fifi boards (to use them in an AYAII TDA1541A
) so can't comment on those boards, but: did you have it playing high res content before your mods? I know there are people successfully doing that (Ceglar, Peterma). I know it's quite a bit of wiring with all those boards... Or just try cranking up the current in the Salas shunt feeding the PCM board.
Sorry when this is all I can say..
thanks Stixx
I suspect you are right. It easily played up to 96k which was the limit of the DAC. I am pretty sure when I tested this new power supply with the BBB and the WaveIO that all was fine. Could even be my USB cable now that I think about it.. most radical chage is the addition of the I2S board so I will likely double check everything there. Sounds so darned good on 44.1 that its tempting just to ignore since that is my entire collection.
Just thought I would check here because I thought I remembered a comment relating to power consumption at higher bit rate.
I suspect you are right. It easily played up to 96k which was the limit of the DAC. I am pretty sure when I tested this new power supply with the BBB and the WaveIO that all was fine. Could even be my USB cable now that I think about it.. most radical chage is the addition of the I2S board so I will likely double check everything there. Sounds so darned good on 44.1 that its tempting just to ignore since that is my entire collection.
Just thought I would check here because I thought I remembered a comment relating to power consumption at higher bit rate.
Hello guys! It's been a while since I didn't post here so expect to be a long but, hopefully, not such a boring post!
I don't "apple" as NickD said before me but I know a story related to this issue: a WaveIO owner and a MAC user reported few weeks ago that there's a volume difference between WaveIO and another XMOS based product even though it shouldn't be! After some struggle, he and one of his friends find out that the source of that issue was a "hidden" volume control on MAC. When I said "hidden" I mean "not so accessible/visible". Now, since I don't own any Apple products I cannot confirm this but I can suggest to check the volume levels on that MAC before start dissecting that WaveIO board!
I need to look closer to your schematic. Anyway, if you managed to make short I2S connection between WaveIO and your DAC chip then maybe there's a problem regarding how your DAC is interpreting the data stream coming from WaveIO. Have you checked the pin Modes M0 to M3?
@ Massimo: Thank you!
Hello Spev, I do have similar issue at home: when I plug in the USB cable I do have a hum on my humble speakers but I know that the power supply for my laptop is almost "done" since it's hot almost all day long. I don't imagine how dry the caps could be inside it! I cannot dismantle it anyway so... Maybe you can start checking your PSU too. Meanwhile please test your WaveIO with another laptop and note if there are nay differences. I doubt it's from WaveIO otherwise you will get that hum all the time, regardless if it's connected to USB or not!
On the other hand, DB is on even if the journey is longer than expected!
Nice to know that! I sometimes get this error when there's a poor communication with the host (PC/MAC/etc.). Most of them is related to hardware, since the boards I'm testing aren't cleaned up at all and I suspect the fluxes involved in soldering process could interfere with high speed USB signals... because after clean up the issue is gone. What you say about your WaveIO is new to me
If you're using Windows then you may want to check the volume levels in the TUSBAudio Control Panel found in WaveIO driver's installation directory.
@Javin5: As said recently, I do have issues playing 352.8 and 384 files too. I didn't test DSD but in my case PC is not crashing. I'll build up a new driver pack soon and I hope this issue will be gone!
I know I still have to say something but I forgot what. This is a long post anyway so I'll leave it for next time!
Kind regards,
Lucian
Thank you!Today I changed 2.23 driver to 2.24 (Windows 7 64-bit, firmware 3.33, 44.1kHz only) for testing purposes and confirm your opinion: 2.24 driver sounds MUCH better than 2.23. The difference is amazing: crisp, fluid and opened. Less... distorted. More presence. True bass now.
I don't "apple" as NickD said before me but I know a story related to this issue: a WaveIO owner and a MAC user reported few weeks ago that there's a volume difference between WaveIO and another XMOS based product even though it shouldn't be! After some struggle, he and one of his friends find out that the source of that issue was a "hidden" volume control on MAC. When I said "hidden" I mean "not so accessible/visible". Now, since I don't own any Apple products I cannot confirm this but I can suggest to check the volume levels on that MAC before start dissecting that WaveIO board!
I need to look closer to your schematic. Anyway, if you managed to make short I2S connection between WaveIO and your DAC chip then maybe there's a problem regarding how your DAC is interpreting the data stream coming from WaveIO. Have you checked the pin Modes M0 to M3?
@ Massimo: Thank you!
Hello Spev, I do have similar issue at home: when I plug in the USB cable I do have a hum on my humble speakers but I know that the power supply for my laptop is almost "done" since it's hot almost all day long. I don't imagine how dry the caps could be inside it! I cannot dismantle it anyway so... Maybe you can start checking your PSU too. Meanwhile please test your WaveIO with another laptop and note if there are nay differences. I doubt it's from WaveIO otherwise you will get that hum all the time, regardless if it's connected to USB or not!
Hi Eldam, thank you for letting me know about the delivery of your card! I'm surprised and happy to know this but, sadly, this short delivery time is not available for everyone! There are some countries in EU where postal service is simply a mess, I'll not give names...
On the other hand, DB is on even if the journey is longer than expected!
The EEPROM chip is in SOIC8 package: SMD package but with higher pitch so no BGA involved here! The chip is labeled U5 on your board and is the closest one to USB connector that have 8 pins. I can send you a replacement without any problems but, even if my services are free - including packaging - the shipping one (and related Paypal cost) aren't. Because of that I have to charge you with a small fee which is covering the shipping and Paypal charges! If you want, we can continue our conversation through PMs and give you details about it.
Updating to 2.24 brings additionnal benefit: it solves my issue where the WaveIO is not detected correctly (to make it short: "unknown device" message) if it is powered up and connected when the computer already runs. This is the same with other USB devices if I connect them when the WaveIO is already connected.
It is very nice to listen to music in those new conditions! I hope that next driver will be the best of 2.23 and 2.24 so everybody will enjoy this superb card.
Nice to know that! I sometimes get this error when there's a poor communication with the host (PC/MAC/etc.). Most of them is related to hardware, since the boards I'm testing aren't cleaned up at all and I suspect the fluxes involved in soldering process could interfere with high speed USB signals... because after clean up the issue is gone. What you say about your WaveIO is new to me
If you're using Windows then you may want to check the volume levels in the TUSBAudio Control Panel found in WaveIO driver's installation directory.
@Javin5: As said recently, I do have issues playing 352.8 and 384 files too. I didn't test DSD but in my case PC is not crashing. I'll build up a new driver pack soon and I hope this issue will be gone!
I know I still have to say something but I forgot what. This is a long post anyway so I'll leave it for next time!
Kind regards,
Lucian
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@ Rick: You have to keep the GND connection otherwise your WaveIO will not be capable to enumerate! I've test this on my PC and clearly saw the following:
* when I plugged the board into USB port without GND connection then WaveIO couldn't enumerate and my laptop simply didn't notice there's something plugged into USB port.
* with GND in place, all went smoothly.
Anyway, while streaming, I removed the GND connection and leaved only the USB differential signals... it worked till I had to disconnect that WaveIO (in my case for a couple of minutes). Anyway I have a strong feeling that I shouldn't do it again... thing that I would recommend to you too! If possible keep than GND line intact even if you don't like and want to isolated it from the rest of your audio setup!
@ Pinnocchio: If you don't mind I'll answer you tomorrow, as it's 22:15 here and there's no "juice" left for me...
@Alex: I'm aware about your memory and I had plans to dispatch it on Monday or next day after it but I couldn't imagine it already passed three weeks from your order!
Huh, I'm really sorry for this huge delay... as I had to ship it before but I hope you'll not be upset on me! Quite soon I'll be back to you with tracking number of your parcel as it's already too late!
Kind regards,
Lucian
* when I plugged the board into USB port without GND connection then WaveIO couldn't enumerate and my laptop simply didn't notice there's something plugged into USB port.
* with GND in place, all went smoothly.
Anyway, while streaming, I removed the GND connection and leaved only the USB differential signals... it worked till I had to disconnect that WaveIO (in my case for a couple of minutes). Anyway I have a strong feeling that I shouldn't do it again... thing that I would recommend to you too! If possible keep than GND line intact even if you don't like and want to isolated it from the rest of your audio setup!
@ Pinnocchio: If you don't mind I'll answer you tomorrow, as it's 22:15 here and there's no "juice" left for me...
@Alex: I'm aware about your memory and I had plans to dispatch it on Monday or next day after it but I couldn't imagine it already passed three weeks from your order!
Huh, I'm really sorry for this huge delay... as I had to ship it before but I hope you'll not be upset on me! Quite soon I'll be back to you with tracking number of your parcel as it's already too late!
Kind regards,
Lucian
HI,
All is conected but I have some basic questions please before the first switch on :
- Could I supply the voltage/Gnd pin of the isolator with the same Powersupply which feed the Wave I/O so with a common ground between the Wave I/O and the Gnd pin of the J6 Header (isolated I2S output) ?
- Or with a standalone supply sharing its ground with the ground of the DAC board ?
Lucian, what are today with the revision board I have (received last Friday) the max upsampling rate without any problems for a TDA-1541 (384 K hz) ?
I run the Wave I/O through the I2StoPCM simultanous Data mode board from Ian: what are the stock Fs Sck of the Wave I/O ? Full speed mode is 64* Fs ?
Thanks in advance,
(I use 5 V with a LT1064 chip, so > 500 mA both for Wave I/O and J6 voltage pin). PS : does the XO are NDKs or does I mistake with the XO DIYhink uses ?
All is conected but I have some basic questions please before the first switch on :
- Could I supply the voltage/Gnd pin of the isolator with the same Powersupply which feed the Wave I/O so with a common ground between the Wave I/O and the Gnd pin of the J6 Header (isolated I2S output) ?
- Or with a standalone supply sharing its ground with the ground of the DAC board ?
Lucian, what are today with the revision board I have (received last Friday) the max upsampling rate without any problems for a TDA-1541 (384 K hz) ?
I run the Wave I/O through the I2StoPCM simultanous Data mode board from Ian: what are the stock Fs Sck of the Wave I/O ? Full speed mode is 64* Fs ?
Thanks in advance,
(I use 5 V with a LT1064 chip, so > 500 mA both for Wave I/O and J6 voltage pin). PS : does the XO are NDKs or does I mistake with the XO DIYhink uses ?
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@Eldam: hope is not too late!
Kind regards,
L
You can do that but you'll defeat the main purpose of the isolator: to isolate grounds!
Much better!
I know 192 Khz but I didn't test 384 Khz! You can try of you wish...
Yes
From what I recall (and thanx to Bunpei!), WaveIO is using NDK products from back 2012. I didn't update the picture on WaveIO's site but, after all you didn't bought pictures, yes?
Well, I'm afraid I'm out of suggestions as long as the DAC is far away from me!
For the moment I'm working on another design and I really like to have my mind as clear as possible to remember what I've done and continue my work there. As for DSD, I still need some time for it since I dislike the idea to leave a project unfinished and start (or continue) another one!
Kind regards,
L