PA130 works well in either with XKi being very compact box. Karlsonator probably sounds better overall but twice the size. You can make your main a dual PA130 for some impressive sensitivity of 96dB.
Hello Xrk971,
I figured this might be a good time to ask. Dayton has a new PA-130 that is 16 Ohm with very different specs. What would be the size of the Karlsonator using 2 per channel of the 16 Ohm version wired for 8 Ohm? Here are the specs from Dayton. If you need a couple to measure for the thread and your hard work, I could send them to you.
Thanks,
Webber
that 16 ohm version looks a bit brighter on top (? -has less inductance) - a pair paralleled in a Karlsonator or XKi would be an easy load for amplifiers which don't like lower Z such as inexpensive HT receivers.
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that 16 ohm version looks a bit brighter on top (? -has less inductance) - a pair paralleled in a Karlsonator or XKi would be an easy load for amplifiers which don't like lower Z such as inexpensive HT receivers.
Sounds like a parallel pair wired for 8 ohm would be a nice match for a ~10-15 watt tube amp per channel. What size scaling karlsonator would be a good match for a pair?
Look back around post 500. Srednivashtar built a dual PA130 version so dimensions are all worked out.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/268524-xki-xs-ab-initio-karlson-6th-order-bandpass-52.html
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/268524-xki-xs-ab-initio-karlson-6th-order-bandpass-52.html
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Look back around post 500. Srednivashtar built a dual PA130 version so dimensions are all worked out.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/268524-xki-xs-ab-initio-karlson-6th-order-bandpass-52.html
Do you think a dual pa130 build would be better in the karlsonator or this xki? Leaving physical size out of the decision, and based on just usefulness and versatility of course.
I have not built either but think the Karlsonator is more of HiFi sound and XKi more of PA sound. Both would sound great in general though based on simulations.
Hmmmm. I like a bit more hifi sound, but might make a pair of xki with single drivers for the bedroom rig.
If I were to do dual pa130 drivers in a karlsonator, what scale do you think would work?I'm a bit of a noob to building anything other than basic tower speakers so forgive me if I sound a bit nervous lol. I'm good with tools so even if they are big I feel confident that I can build them up nicely.
Great thread!
I see some recommendations for the FE206en in scaled Karlson plans in this thread, but wasn't sure if I missed an XKi plan for that driver?
Any benefit going with an XKi design vs. the scaled ones? Seems the XKi design tends to coax more bass extension out of drivers.
I see some recommendations for the FE206en in scaled Karlson plans in this thread, but wasn't sure if I missed an XKi plan for that driver?
Any benefit going with an XKi design vs. the scaled ones? Seems the XKi design tends to coax more bass extension out of drivers.
I don't think there's been a dedicated Akabak simulated Karlson.Karlsonator/XKi design for FE206EN yet.
A stock Karlsonator 8 would be tuned around 40Hz - that might be too low (?)
XKi tend to have larger rear chamber's per cone area and lower tuning than original Karlson.
I've run FE206EN in: K12, a cabinet called "SK8", 0.62 scale K15, K8 and probably once in a tall version of the K8.
FE206EN is a lively K-driver - there may be a somewhat better K for it than
my 0.62 scaled K15 which were made for a 10" speaker.
X and other should have educated guesses. Aperture and initial gap changes can matter subjectively yet not measure much different. I'm not sure about the upper "reflector" board used in Karlson's originals. The originals, at least K15 and K12 are great with the right speakers. A K-tube tweeter is a nice way to have a transparent treble if fullrange or coaxial woofer aren't employed.
drums
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpGkYpAcUdw
soprano and harp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaWvtfI6FiA
A stock Karlsonator 8 would be tuned around 40Hz - that might be too low (?)
XKi tend to have larger rear chamber's per cone area and lower tuning than original Karlson.
I've run FE206EN in: K12, a cabinet called "SK8", 0.62 scale K15, K8 and probably once in a tall version of the K8.
FE206EN is a lively K-driver - there may be a somewhat better K for it than
my 0.62 scaled K15 which were made for a 10" speaker.
X and other should have educated guesses. Aperture and initial gap changes can matter subjectively yet not measure much different. I'm not sure about the upper "reflector" board used in Karlson's originals. The originals, at least K15 and K12 are great with the right speakers. A K-tube tweeter is a nice way to have a transparent treble if fullrange or coaxial woofer aren't employed.
drums
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpGkYpAcUdw
soprano and harp
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaWvtfI6FiA
I don't think I have designed an xKi for FE206eN yet. XKi does indeed get more bass extension as 6th order bandpass is all about squeezing extension and SPL out of a driver.
Thanks, freddi.
I've read a few of your posts about how well the FE206en works in a Karlson and it's piqued my interest!
Can you do one up? 😀
Hi X,
is there a scaling for the xki that would allow for this 10" driver?
fs 56
vas 33.3
qt 0.38
qm 7.56
re 5
le 0.9
Thanks in advance!
is there a scaling for the xki that would allow for this 10" driver?
fs 56
vas 33.3
qt 0.38
qm 7.56
re 5
le 0.9
Thanks in advance!
I'd also like to see what X comes up with for your speaker -
here's a very rough guesstimate for ~25 liter rear chamber, ~11.5 liter front chamber 0.8 scale Acoustic Control 115BK. The sim thinks tuning would be around 62Hz. A full scale 115BK has external dimensions of 27" tall x 20.4" wide x 13.5" deep.
maybe there's a way to get a decent guess for an ZKi alignment with hornresp (?)
here's a real world case of Eminence's Beta10cx in a full size Karlsonator versus a 0.62 scale K15 (K15 is the original 1951 Karlson)
the small cabinet with its higher tuning and whatever bandpass gain/peaking, is packing punch in the 100-200Hz
"hit" octave:
here's a very rough guesstimate for ~25 liter rear chamber, ~11.5 liter front chamber 0.8 scale Acoustic Control 115BK. The sim thinks tuning would be around 62Hz. A full scale 115BK has external dimensions of 27" tall x 20.4" wide x 13.5" deep.
maybe there's a way to get a decent guess for an ZKi alignment with hornresp (?)
here's a real world case of Eminence's Beta10cx in a full size Karlsonator versus a 0.62 scale K15 (K15 is the original 1951 Karlson)
the small cabinet with its higher tuning and whatever bandpass gain/peaking, is packing punch in the 100-200Hz
"hit" octave:
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Alpair 6p
Two years of procrastination and now my ply Alpair 6p are underway and going well so far, however checking back I noticed that Bolexbm had used the same design for similar spec Sammi speakers. The port on mine looks much longer than his. X calculated The port length at 11inches I presume this length is the total of the 0.5 inch channel? Photos of the differing speakers, mine first
Thanks Simon
Two years of procrastination and now my ply Alpair 6p are underway and going well so far, however checking back I noticed that Bolexbm had used the same design for similar spec Sammi speakers. The port on mine looks much longer than his. X calculated The port length at 11inches I presume this length is the total of the 0.5 inch channel? Photos of the differing speakers, mine first
Thanks Simon
Hi X
As I understand it yes
As I understand it yes
Here is the design for an XKi with the A6p:
6in Wide x 10in tall x 6.3in deep (all internal dims) with a 6in wide x 0.5in tall x 11in long vent. Total active volume (front and back) is 5 liters. Make the triangle front chamber 2.5in deep from front. Use 1/2in plywood.
Here is SPL at 2.83v (fb is about 67Hz):
Here is Impedance:
Here is cone displacement at xmax of 5mm and 8,3v drive:
Here is max SPL - about 100dB at 8.3v:
Thanks for posting the Alpair 6 sims. In that case it is good. The sims are pretty accurate and I can trust if your TS parameters are close that it will perform as described.
I can't scale it - need to run a simulation as the 6th order alignment is kind of picky with TS parameters.