Hi all
In the audio world, many good tips are offered.
Among others, my favorite tips are here: http://www.audio.nl/tipseng.html
This is part of them.
JH
In the audio world, many good tips are offered.
Among others, my favorite tips are here: http://www.audio.nl/tipseng.html
This is part of them.
I am interested in this and about to apply for my BOSOZ PSU as shown below. Have you ever tried this? I could have my own experiment; however, knowing your experience would be a great help. Thanks.
JH
Attachments
jh6you
jh6you,
nice to hear something from the XSOZ forum.
today i took the time and soldered .33 ohm resistors in front of the rectifiers and listened what happened.
the result is difficult to hear/say: on the one side it sounded clearer and more direkt, on the other side it sounded colder. I think the differences are not easy to explain.
perhaps the listening test was biased by myself. there`s always the psychlogical aspect in those things. i try to stay unbiased and be very sceptical to all changes and improfements.
Regards,
Ralf
jh6you said:
jh6you,
nice to hear something from the XSOZ forum.
today i took the time and soldered .33 ohm resistors in front of the rectifiers and listened what happened.
the result is difficult to hear/say: on the one side it sounded clearer and more direkt, on the other side it sounded colder. I think the differences are not easy to explain.
perhaps the listening test was biased by myself. there`s always the psychlogical aspect in those things. i try to stay unbiased and be very sceptical to all changes and improfements.
Regards,
Ralf
Power supply pre amp
For your pre amp you may want to improve your power supply as in the pass pearl phono stage. Text taken from pearl information page 3. There is a picture there but I could not figuar how to paste it.
"In this example, the AC line is filtered by two 4.7 ohm 1/2 watt resistors and by a 0.1 uF film capacitor rated at AC line voltages. A good example is Digikey part P4603-ND. This filter is not essential."
The resistors are in series with the primary of transformer and the capacitor is in parallel.
You can never have too much filtering in your power supply.
For your pre amp you may want to improve your power supply as in the pass pearl phono stage. Text taken from pearl information page 3. There is a picture there but I could not figuar how to paste it.
"In this example, the AC line is filtered by two 4.7 ohm 1/2 watt resistors and by a 0.1 uF film capacitor rated at AC line voltages. A good example is Digikey part P4603-ND. This filter is not essential."
The resistors are in series with the primary of transformer and the capacitor is in parallel.
You can never have too much filtering in your power supply.
Hi Ralf,
The clearance and directness seem to always coordinate the coldness. And vise versa.
As shown in the attached diagram, a target of a sound quality always exists in my mind. Whenever I do change, improve, simplify or append parts of my amps, I meet end results, and I might get a positive quality development. But, if the development is unfortunately minor and reaches below my target quality line, the development is often disregarded. This is my perception of the developments.
To my BOSOZ, I just applied the Pearl filter. Now I understand the words saying, This filter is not essential.
Regards
JH
Attachments
Hi
I have strengthened PSU of BOSOZ with six 5.2R (0.6w) and one 0.1uF (670v).
I feel the sound as if the voices and musical instruments were smoothed by the
touch of very fine sandpaper. I would like to recommend this cheap and effective
filtering.
JH
PS. I measure the output voltages of +28.9 and -28.5v.
I have strengthened PSU of BOSOZ with six 5.2R (0.6w) and one 0.1uF (670v).
I feel the sound as if the voices and musical instruments were smoothed by the
touch of very fine sandpaper. I would like to recommend this cheap and effective
filtering.
JH
PS. I measure the output voltages of +28.9 and -28.5v.
Attachments
finished xbsoz and Xsoz of Henrik
Hi,
last night i finished two new XboSoz pcb`s and the modification to Xsoz as Hendrik did.
four weeks ago i decidde to build jh6you`s version, but after deciding to build aleph x in next project, i dropped it and build henriks version.
in henriks version i used non exotic parts, standard metall resistors and the coupling caps of XBsoz are MKP types,not expensive, which i had on hand. The caps in my original BSoz are super exotic and wxpensive types!!
the caps in XSoz are cheap electrolytics (220uF).
the first listening impressions, without burning in time was a more relaxed, more detailed sound and all aspects henrik described in his listening impressions.
Henrik, how can i increase gain in the xbsoz/ Xsoz, without avoidng the loop devices
regards,
Ralf
Hi,
last night i finished two new XboSoz pcb`s and the modification to Xsoz as Hendrik did.
four weeks ago i decidde to build jh6you`s version, but after deciding to build aleph x in next project, i dropped it and build henriks version.
in henriks version i used non exotic parts, standard metall resistors and the coupling caps of XBsoz are MKP types,not expensive, which i had on hand. The caps in my original BSoz are super exotic and wxpensive types!!
the caps in XSoz are cheap electrolytics (220uF).
the first listening impressions, without burning in time was a more relaxed, more detailed sound and all aspects henrik described in his listening impressions.
Henrik, how can i increase gain in the xbsoz/ Xsoz, without avoidng the loop devices
regards,
Ralf
Congratulations Ralf!
You can increase gain in XBOSOZ by increase R122/123.
This wil influence the outputimpedance as well, not that I think it will be a problem.
As I recall, You couldn´t exploit the full power from Your SOZ, is this still the problem as You described it then?
If You could post a scematic with all informations, I could make some sims for You, and see if I could find Your problem(s), also info about the signalsources You uses.
By the way, I am rebuilding both my XBOSOZ and XSOZ with the best parts, Audionote tantal resistors, Holco powerresistors MP930 and Blackgate nonpoler types, wired P2P on veroboard.
When I have finished I will post some pictures.
It would be great if You builded the Aleph-X, then we could get some comparation to the XSOZ. Nothing beats A/B tests.
You can increase gain in XBOSOZ by increase R122/123.
This wil influence the outputimpedance as well, not that I think it will be a problem.
As I recall, You couldn´t exploit the full power from Your SOZ, is this still the problem as You described it then?
If You could post a scematic with all informations, I could make some sims for You, and see if I could find Your problem(s), also info about the signalsources You uses.
By the way, I am rebuilding both my XBOSOZ and XSOZ with the best parts, Audionote tantal resistors, Holco powerresistors MP930 and Blackgate nonpoler types, wired P2P on veroboard.
When I have finished I will post some pictures.
It would be great if You builded the Aleph-X, then we could get some comparation to the XSOZ. Nothing beats A/B tests.
henrik
o.k.
you tell me if better parts improve the sound, and i build an aleph x with standard parts.
Meanwhile i added glimmer and styroflexes to the coupling capacitor in my new XBsoz, but i hear no difference, like in my BSoz: there i did not hear a diffrence between good caps and extreme good caps like Jensen paper in oil.
Ralf
Henrik said:
o.k.
you tell me if better parts improve the sound, and i build an aleph x with standard parts.
Meanwhile i added glimmer and styroflexes to the coupling capacitor in my new XBsoz, but i hear no difference, like in my BSoz: there i did not hear a diffrence between good caps and extreme good caps like Jensen paper in oil.
Ralf
Deal, I will tell what happens with the better parts and You build the Aleph-X an tell about that.
I will make the XBOSOZ first and then the XSOZ.
A pittie that I can´t make real A/B tests between all the better parts and the usually ones, since the old XBOSOZ will dissapear in favour of the new and, I hope, even better one.
May be Your observations on adding better coupling caps will stand, let´s se what happens. I have heard, that sometimes it makes things worse when coupling caps in parallel, it shoud depend of the mix of types, I think I have got that from Audionote once.
I will make the XBOSOZ first and then the XSOZ.
A pittie that I can´t make real A/B tests between all the better parts and the usually ones, since the old XBOSOZ will dissapear in favour of the new and, I hope, even better one.
May be Your observations on adding better coupling caps will stand, let´s se what happens. I have heard, that sometimes it makes things worse when coupling caps in parallel, it shoud depend of the mix of types, I think I have got that from Audionote once.
Caps
Let me tell you about caps. I was experimenting yesterday with input caps on my Aleph X. I wanted to cross it at around 120Hz for mids and tweeter high pass. The value I needed was around 0.06uF. Since I didn't have one cap of that value I had to parallel two. I settled on VTV Ultratone silver foil paper in oil type and Jensen polystyrene. Both of them have outer foil marked, so I soldered them together in that order. It came to me that it might be worthwile to check them in circuit both ways (outer foil to input and inner foil to input). I was switching for an hour and couldn't decide. There was quite a big difference between both polarities. One way it sounded very soft and laid back, kind of pleasing, the other way more bright and etched with better defined vocal, but also more fatiguing. Eventually I decided on the first choice. The music I was using for testing was soft rock like Dire Straits, Pink Floyd and some Dylan. So I was more than happy that I finally made decision and I put a different kind of CD in a player: my favourite industrial recordings. And here I was for a big surprise. The music sounded way different to what I was used to. Out of focus, out of phase, simply one big mess and unaccaptable. So I got only one more thing left to do; I reversed one cap in ea. pair and soldered it together. Another big surprise. With this combination, everything came to focus and started to sound properly with beautifuly defined top end, detail and vocal that sounded real. Also the rock recordings sounded better than before, and this time the choice was obvious and better than previous two alternatives.
I also tried MIT RTX, but it was no competition and sounded dull. Jensen Pure Copper foil paper in oil, while better than MIT wasn't either a competion for my pair, lacking detail and sounding flobby.
With a high resolution system not only the different sound of capacitors is pretty obvious but also their polarity is easy to distinguish. Joel, are you reading this?😉
Let me tell you about caps. I was experimenting yesterday with input caps on my Aleph X. I wanted to cross it at around 120Hz for mids and tweeter high pass. The value I needed was around 0.06uF. Since I didn't have one cap of that value I had to parallel two. I settled on VTV Ultratone silver foil paper in oil type and Jensen polystyrene. Both of them have outer foil marked, so I soldered them together in that order. It came to me that it might be worthwile to check them in circuit both ways (outer foil to input and inner foil to input). I was switching for an hour and couldn't decide. There was quite a big difference between both polarities. One way it sounded very soft and laid back, kind of pleasing, the other way more bright and etched with better defined vocal, but also more fatiguing. Eventually I decided on the first choice. The music I was using for testing was soft rock like Dire Straits, Pink Floyd and some Dylan. So I was more than happy that I finally made decision and I put a different kind of CD in a player: my favourite industrial recordings. And here I was for a big surprise. The music sounded way different to what I was used to. Out of focus, out of phase, simply one big mess and unaccaptable. So I got only one more thing left to do; I reversed one cap in ea. pair and soldered it together. Another big surprise. With this combination, everything came to focus and started to sound properly with beautifuly defined top end, detail and vocal that sounded real. Also the rock recordings sounded better than before, and this time the choice was obvious and better than previous two alternatives.
I also tried MIT RTX, but it was no competition and sounded dull. Jensen Pure Copper foil paper in oil, while better than MIT wasn't either a competion for my pair, lacking detail and sounding flobby.
With a high resolution system not only the different sound of capacitors is pretty obvious but also their polarity is easy to distinguish. Joel, are you reading this?😉
Attachments
That´s a story to tell!
There we have it again, the true and never ending audiophile anxiety.
But is this magic only related to caps in parallel?
Wich way shall I turn my 220uF BlackGate type N in my XBOSOZ, it is hard to test, since I have to mount them on my board before I can do that? They are said to be nonpolarized, but are they sonically polarized?
There we have it again, the true and never ending audiophile anxiety.
But is this magic only related to caps in parallel?
Wich way shall I turn my 220uF BlackGate type N in my XBOSOZ, it is hard to test, since I have to mount them on my board before I can do that? They are said to be nonpolarized, but are they sonically polarized?
Since you are probably building stereo version, do one channel one way and second channel the other way and compare.
BTW, which is the latest schematic for XBOSOZ. I'd like to build it too, but lost the track.😉
BTW, which is the latest schematic for XBOSOZ. I'd like to build it too, but lost the track.😉
Hej Peter!
I have to do some tests one way or the other, thanks for the post.
At the moment there is only my version, and I can realley recommend it. If You like, You can do it with a CCS at the tail.
You can read about it here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3949&pagenumber=17 Scematics is in the "henrik x-bsoz and x-soz.zip" file.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3949&perpage=15&pagenumber=28. and go to my thread "Some tests on CCS´s".
I have to do some tests one way or the other, thanks for the post.
At the moment there is only my version, and I can realley recommend it. If You like, You can do it with a CCS at the tail.
You can read about it here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3949&pagenumber=17 Scematics is in the "henrik x-bsoz and x-soz.zip" file.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3949&perpage=15&pagenumber=28. and go to my thread "Some tests on CCS´s".
By the way, my caps in my XBOSOZ is not 220uF as I said before, they are 47uF/50v, but the problem still stands.
Thanks for the links. Do you really need such big values? I was hoping to be OK with 2 or 4uF maximum.
really interesting, the sory with the caps
...i will experiment further with som caps i`ll get in a week.
and perhaps polarizing/depolarizing the bypasses.
Unfortunately, i cannot use 47uF jensen paper in oil copper ones - the price is too high!!! in Moment i use 33uF.
But i will also experiment with the 220uF in XSoz.
the layout of the pcb is equal the schematic of Henrik and herewith - symmetrical -
to the listening test today: sound is really diffrent to original soz/bosoz. it`s clearer and really more detailed, hearable on many music titles.
it` all souns a bit more higher than with originals.
its even more dynamic and forced. the music comes more direct and its more live.
i hope aleph x will top this.
one is clear- i dont want to go back to original SOZ/BOsoz but i will own them in future for listening tests. I hope the sound will get better by using better parts like henrik will do.
...i will experiment further with som caps i`ll get in a week.
and perhaps polarizing/depolarizing the bypasses.
Unfortunately, i cannot use 47uF jensen paper in oil copper ones - the price is too high!!! in Moment i use 33uF.
But i will also experiment with the 220uF in XSoz.
the layout of the pcb is equal the schematic of Henrik and herewith - symmetrical -
to the listening test today: sound is really diffrent to original soz/bosoz. it`s clearer and really more detailed, hearable on many music titles.
it` all souns a bit more higher than with originals.
its even more dynamic and forced. the music comes more direct and its more live.
i hope aleph x will top this.
one is clear- i dont want to go back to original SOZ/BOsoz but i will own them in future for listening tests. I hope the sound will get better by using better parts like henrik will do.
No.
It depends on the inputimpedance of the poweramp, my XBSOZ is verry low it has 120 Ohm as I remember.
On the originally bosoz Nelson used 10uF, but You migt be able to lover it some more.
But remember, this time the cap is inside the feedbackloop, so much of the sins comitted are cancled in the X.
It is too late in the evening for me to do some sims.
If You like, I could do some sims to morrow on the XBOSOZ and the Aleph-x to calculate the minimum size of the cap. Let me know.
It depends on the inputimpedance of the poweramp, my XBSOZ is verry low it has 120 Ohm as I remember.
On the originally bosoz Nelson used 10uF, but You migt be able to lover it some more.
But remember, this time the cap is inside the feedbackloop, so much of the sins comitted are cancled in the X.
It is too late in the evening for me to do some sims.
If You like, I could do some sims to morrow on the XBOSOZ and the Aleph-x to calculate the minimum size of the cap. Let me know.