I think I know what you're talking about with fuzzy, but I'm completely lost on "screen door" effect when it comes to sound. I can't get past screen door effect on monitors/TVs.
It’s an apparent lack of high frequency resolution or detail…………I have had both the LS50 and Q150 in the nearfield for a while of subjective listening. Both were connected to my DAW through an Antelope ADDA and Levinson integrated. I was unable to correct for it no matter the EQ I applied. Each monitor I use during the mixdown process has a custome EQ preset plugin applied. I came to the conclusion that it’s certainly not frequency balance……….its just a sense of confusion above 2.5k
FWIW, the Q150s are still my main mix monitors for the phase coherency…….for working compression and mic placement monitoring, they’re excellent beating monitors 10x their price and they get me 95% of the way there. But even my NS 10’s whoop them on high frequency clarity and definition…….
The LS50 was just too polite for my taste……listening to em is like being in a fancy restaurant where even the sound of clanking silverware draws a stare…………nice and easy to listen to…….too nice.
I think the Meta thing is bu!!$hit marketing.
Take this all with a grain of salt…….my best high frequency transducer is a true ribbon only bested by open back AMT loaded headphones when looking for clarity and detail. Be warned, ……avoid being ruined forever by listening to a pair of Audeze phones…..there’s no going back.
FWIW, the Q150s are still my main mix monitors for the phase coherency…….for working compression and mic placement monitoring, they’re excellent beating monitors 10x their price and they get me 95% of the way there. But even my NS 10’s whoop them on high frequency clarity and definition…….
The LS50 was just too polite for my taste……listening to em is like being in a fancy restaurant where even the sound of clanking silverware draws a stare…………nice and easy to listen to…….too nice.
I think the Meta thing is bu!!$hit marketing.
Take this all with a grain of salt…….my best high frequency transducer is a true ribbon only bested by open back AMT loaded headphones when looking for clarity and detail. Be warned, ……avoid being ruined forever by listening to a pair of Audeze phones…..there’s no going back.
Really? The NS10 is being compared to KEF, when they clearly exhibit two very different philosophies, from two vastly different era's.
Maybe you just like a big 5dB boost in the middle of the sensitive area of our hearing, and then get tricked to hear that as 'clarity'. No offence, we all fall for this little 'detail' trick now and then, but a fair comparison it is not 😉
Maybe you just like a big 5dB boost in the middle of the sensitive area of our hearing, and then get tricked to hear that as 'clarity'. No offence, we all fall for this little 'detail' trick now and then, but a fair comparison it is not 😉
Exactly👍
You can actually EQ most speakers to have a bit of extra emphasis in the upper midrange, which "tricks" you to hear more detail - when in fact it is just you "zooming" in on a given pass-band, wher most details in music are "hidden" and human ears are most sensitive.
As soon as you listen to a neutral speaker. You hearing - maybe loss of hearing - and the specific music, makes a ton of difference to whether it sounds detailed or not. Just a flat smooth/even bass response in the listening position, can clear up many details in the upper frequencies, which normally would be masked by the much more dominant bass.
But, I think that KEF are the only ones to really build a low-price awesome coax.
Everyone else are kinda compromised, because they often just cut out the dust-cap of an existing woofer they have on the program, and dump a tweeter on the pole-piece. KEF made the coil for midrange so large, that there was room for a little fixed waveguide, so that a way more smooth transition can take place between the two drivers.
I also have a set of Q150s nearfield(computer), and an older set of SEAS that I built 20 something years ago, and my current main set which are powered monitor style with SEAS midrange coaxs. I'm actually far less experienced with normal speakers....
Out of curiosity, I went digging through Erin's Audio Corner website for data...
LS50 and Q Meta (basically Q150) show a slight decrease in multi tone distortion when high passed at 80hz. But both are still quite high compared to what comes next:
This next one is very interesting, Mofi Sourcepoint 8 and 888. First off is the overall lower MD even in the sourcepoint 8 running fullrange. I'd guess a better tweeter combined with a bigger cone (moves less). Then when high passed, a slight reduction in MD. Then when that same driver (assumption) is crossed at 130hz as in the 888, a even further drop in MD. It would seem that pure midrange use is the better idea. THe MD is similarly low for all the KEFs that use the coax purely in the midrange role.
For reference, this is what a Buchardt S400ii and Philharmonic Ceramic Mini (SB26CDC) look like.
So for all use DIYers, if you want a coax, use it in a three way for best results....
Can’t afford to get ‘tricked’……I’m a mix/mastering engineer by trade for over 30 years.
The purpose of comparing the tweeter was simple…..the stand alone tweeter without the abrupt multi phase shield presents far more clarity than the KEF…..it has NOTHING to do with amplitude.
I hope you guys don't make any commercial mixes right? It's just a local wedding bands doing promo disc for the gigs in the surrounding villages ?
Measurements of the same driver without and with META clearly show that your thinking about META is bul...
On the contrary, the purpose of that phase corrector is to correct the phase. Your subjective preference has another source you have yet to find.
Are you taking measurements, If you have measurements and can point the problem area its a lot more effective. I always say GD is the reflection accuracy or lack there of, but its tied together FR/GD/Phase.
The only measurement device that matters is the one between your ears…….if somehow you think modern technology has overtaken millions of years of biological evolution, you’re mistaken. Remember……perceptive systems are limited to what we know or think we know about biological sensory systems…….one only needs to read a little about color to understand the correlations. Try not to get ahead of yourself. Our aural perceptions are not only heavily biased but also inconsistent and influenced by other biological systems…..blood pressure, blood sugar, hydration, fatigue, depression or euphoria……..there’s no consistency here and certainly NOT to a degree that can be offset with technology.
What matters to me is whether or not a Meta based tweeter sounds better or worse than a non Meta device……and I cannot consistently perceive this beyond 50% which turns out is no better than random……there’s nothing left to say here……I’ve done the testing as I do every day while working with a precision AB monitoring system that’s calibrated to less than 1db.
Not sure what all the pushback in this thread is about……I’ve CLEARLY stated that my primary monitoring speakers for home work are modified Q150’s……combined with nearfield subwoofer system……..I absolutely love what they do for certain aspects of analyzing a mix. Sorry though……they aren’t something I’d prefer to listen to for enjoyment in the mid to far field……there’s simple better options……much better in fact….and that’s my personal experience.
Disagree all you like…..doesn’t change my perception at all…..and the limited use of coaxial based speaker systems along with the title of this thread…..the lack of availability for these types of drivers is the tell. Just answering the topic of the thread…….nothing more.
Disagree all you like…..doesn’t change my perception at all…..and the limited use of coaxial based speaker systems along with the title of this thread…..the lack of availability for these types of drivers is the tell. Just answering the topic of the thread…….nothing more.
Well, my ears and everything between them tell me - your ears and everything between them are wrong. I also have millions of years of biological evolution behind me.
You are not the only one on this planet to work with precision studio monitors every day.
I have an EQ plugin preset for the NS10's that's on the master buss which gets selected when i'm using them......mine are old and don't measure as wonky as those......and there wasn't much consistency in the NS 10's over the decades and models. Tissue paper over the tweeter?......lol