" Is it legal in Germany to start a chapter of Hitler Youth? Can you publish an anti-Semitic newspaper?"
a)yes
b) no
its the same like on this board.
a) i´m allowed to make some theories about the misinformation some extreme violent murdering countries give to their soldiers, and why that kind of zero intelligence postings come out of their mind.
b) i´m not allowed to call *** the stupid idiot and violence fanatic he is.
a)yes
b) no
its the same like on this board.
a) i´m allowed to make some theories about the misinformation some extreme violent murdering countries give to their soldiers, and why that kind of zero intelligence postings come out of their mind.
b) i´m not allowed to call *** the stupid idiot and violence fanatic he is.
If *** is pointing towards a 3 characters nick, there aren't many on the list... Idiot, maybe; violence fanatic, could be... brainwashed, clear indication...
till, thanks. That was my understanding.
Like I said, it surprised me. I have been told that there are similar laws in France, doubly surprising since they banned the hijab and yarmulkes (not rosaries, though). I don't know about Italy, but wouldn't be surprised if the laws there were different- after all, that's the homeland of Orianna Fallacci (whose name I may have horribly misspelled).
Like I said, it surprised me. I have been told that there are similar laws in France, doubly surprising since they banned the hijab and yarmulkes (not rosaries, though). I don't know about Italy, but wouldn't be surprised if the laws there were different- after all, that's the homeland of Orianna Fallacci (whose name I may have horribly misspelled).
till said:
well u just did
brainwashed ?
i'm the one living here and see whats going on everyday , u are the one that is brainwashed with all that haterate u got towards usa and israel
Questionable taste, perhaps; not the style of argument I'd use, certainly; and the cutesy "oh it's not you, it's some other ***" misdirection seems sort of lame and childish to me. But all in all (personal opinion here, not speaking as a moderator!), no, I don't think anyone made a direct attack.
When someone gets down to name-calling and mud-slinging, it's a sign that they've run out of any logical argument.
Since he is quoting some of my text(with my nick present) and he is referring to me(by using u) I take is as a direct attack.SY said:
I understand that my english is not as I want it to be, but then again, "u" doesn't leave any interpretation behind especially within the context(using "the one" which points towards one person).
1st - the man with the 3 letters nick sayed he was meant , not i. But at least he is able to recognice himshelf.
2nd. it is an example to make it little clearer. There is of corse a lot of scientific work and arcticles about HJ and whatever there was between 33 and 45. Also there are newspapers in germany handling opinions about nazi - topics. Of corse it is not allowed to do personal attacks in them, tell lies in pupose on discriminating others, do antisemtic statements as this is considered something like discrimination and thus illegal here. The problem is because of this nobody is allowed to do ANY criticism on isreal, even if they shoot 6 year old girls from the backside and tell, like sss, " she was a terrorist"...
btw, a nick like "sss" would not be considerer pc over here and would show what minds child the person behind is.
2nd. it is an example to make it little clearer. There is of corse a lot of scientific work and arcticles about HJ and whatever there was between 33 and 45. Also there are newspapers in germany handling opinions about nazi - topics. Of corse it is not allowed to do personal attacks in them, tell lies in pupose on discriminating others, do antisemtic statements as this is considered something like discrimination and thus illegal here. The problem is because of this nobody is allowed to do ANY criticism on isreal, even if they shoot 6 year old girls from the backside and tell, like sss, " she was a terrorist"...
btw, a nick like "sss" would not be considerer pc over here and would show what minds child the person behind is.
this like in private, as germany still has no echelon tracing every movement of its citizens everywere and in the net. Nobody knows i do. But do it as a politician, and you are out.
(check my IP, for safety pupose i write " from the US", proxy.guardster.com)
(check my IP, for safety pupose i write " from the US", proxy.guardster.com)
sss said:
Perhaps it is just careless semantics in your post, but otherwise
you seem to fail to make an important distinction. What you
call hatred towards Israel can be subdivided into three categories.
1) Dislike or hatred against jews in general
2) Dislika of the existance of the state of Israel
3) Dislike of how the current leaders of Israel are handlling
the conflict.
These are three distinct matters, and while I cannot guarantee
there are not some forum members who subscribe to items
1 and 2, I am sure they are rare. What you and many israelis
iterpret as category 1 and/or 2 is really only about item 3.
This is an important distinction to make, but there is a sad
tendency, not the least from israeli politicians to mix these
things up. Sometimes I get a scary feeling that they do this
deliberately. Your current ambassador to Sweden, Zvi Maazel,
is notorious for failing to distinguish these things. He seems
to treat everything he dislikes as an attack against Israel and
jews in general and seems to send very coloured and
erroneous reports to Israel about certain events. There was
a current event where an israeli born jewish artist living in
Sweden exhibited a work of art that Zvi Mazel labelled
antisemitic and even tried to destroy. He also reported it
as such to the extent that Israel made an official complaint
and demanded this work to be removed from the exhibition.
There was nothing obvious anti-semitic or anti-israelic in
this piece of art, but like much art it didn't have an immediately
obvious message and could be interpreted in various ways.
The artist did not intend it as anti-semitic or anti-Israelic, but
as a comment on the violence committed by both sides in
the conflict and how violence leads to more violence and
escalates. However, it was obvious that Zvi Maazel had
made up his mind what to think of this work before he had
even seen it and he refused to even participate in discussions
about it. Such obvious stupid behaviour does not do any
good for your country. You simply cannot label any criticism
against Israel as anti-semitic. That is plain stupid or ignorant
and will cause people to have less sympathy for you.
Once again. please note that you have all my sympathy for
the horror caused by the ever-present threat of suicide
bombings.
I think the reason why criticism of Israel is interpreted as evidence of anti-semitism is that Israel seems to have been singled out. The only thing that distinguishes the situation there from a dozen other territorial disputes around the world is that there are Jews involved -- thus, the focus on Israel is motivated by anti-semitism.
Personally, I don't buy it. I think the European fixation on Israel is a symptom of a much more generalized racism. They expect that sort of behavior from Indonesians, but Israelis? They're white, they should know better.
A poster here recently claimed that the US had the highest homicide rate in the world. That's only true if when a Colombian is killed it doesn't count as homicide, with the implication being that Colombians aren't quite human. That kind of thinking is behind a lot of the exaggerated crisitism of Israel (and the US), and to me it's a lot more disturbing than plain old anti-semitism.
Personally, I don't buy it. I think the European fixation on Israel is a symptom of a much more generalized racism. They expect that sort of behavior from Indonesians, but Israelis? They're white, they should know better.
A poster here recently claimed that the US had the highest homicide rate in the world. That's only true if when a Colombian is killed it doesn't count as homicide, with the implication being that Colombians aren't quite human. That kind of thinking is behind a lot of the exaggerated crisitism of Israel (and the US), and to me it's a lot more disturbing than plain old anti-semitism.
i vote for response 3
Rob, can you educate me about other place where one country kill others country "leader?", destroy house and lauch helicopter, rocket and tanks attack against the people of the other country?
i know the usa does that!
what are the others
p.s. to those member pointing finger at other members:
when you point your index at other there's always three fingers pointing at you!
Daniel
Rob, can you educate me about other place where one country kill others country "leader?", destroy house and lauch helicopter, rocket and tanks attack against the people of the other country?
i know the usa does that!
what are the others
p.s. to those member pointing finger at other members:
when you point your index at other there's always three fingers pointing at you!
Daniel
Rob,
You are probably right that we expect more of the israelis than
of many others. Maybe it is racism, but I wouldn't call it so. I
think it is rather that we think of Israel as a country of the
same style as the US or western european countries. It is
rather that the religion doesn't matter, because their society
is so similar to ours regarding traditions of democracy, the
level of industry, health care etc. etc. Howver, you are right
that we tend to forget about many other terrible conflicts.
For instance, in the middle east we have the kurdish people
who are split over several countries and sometimes denied
the right to their own language and culture.
However, what I think really singles out Israel is that this
conflict is so closely linked to the US and western europe
in the eyes of many muslims. I don't know what they show
on american TV, but here it is not uncommon to see muslims
being interviewed who make no distinction between israelis
and americans, for instance, and call all americans jews.
Also, Israel is heavily dependent on economical grants from
the US, or they couldn't keep their military strength. On top
of this, many muslims seem to put (western) Europe in the same
bin as Israel and the US. Hence, the conflict cannot easily
be ignored, especially now with al-Queda and similar groups.
The israeli-arab conflict is the only conflict in the middle east
which in some way spreads to us, in the form of hatred against
the west in general. So, I would say it is not racism, but
maybe it is egoism in the sense that we are worried about
ourselves too.
You are probably right that we expect more of the israelis than
of many others. Maybe it is racism, but I wouldn't call it so. I
think it is rather that we think of Israel as a country of the
same style as the US or western european countries. It is
rather that the religion doesn't matter, because their society
is so similar to ours regarding traditions of democracy, the
level of industry, health care etc. etc. Howver, you are right
that we tend to forget about many other terrible conflicts.
For instance, in the middle east we have the kurdish people
who are split over several countries and sometimes denied
the right to their own language and culture.
However, what I think really singles out Israel is that this
conflict is so closely linked to the US and western europe
in the eyes of many muslims. I don't know what they show
on american TV, but here it is not uncommon to see muslims
being interviewed who make no distinction between israelis
and americans, for instance, and call all americans jews.
Also, Israel is heavily dependent on economical grants from
the US, or they couldn't keep their military strength. On top
of this, many muslims seem to put (western) Europe in the same
bin as Israel and the US. Hence, the conflict cannot easily
be ignored, especially now with al-Queda and similar groups.
The israeli-arab conflict is the only conflict in the middle east
which in some way spreads to us, in the form of hatred against
the west in general. So, I would say it is not racism, but
maybe it is egoism in the sense that we are worried about
ourselves too.
We give just as much to support the dictatorship in Egypt. Many of us wonder why. It hasn't seemed to affect the Enraged Arab Street® to any noticeable extent. Nor has it seemed to improve their lives, other than the lives of a few favored friends of Mubarek. We used to send boatloads of money to the Palestinian Authority, too; most of it ended up supporting the rich lifestyle of Arafat's wife and kids- in Paris.
One wonders about basing foreign policy on the notion that a TV station can dig up some ignorant people to interview.
SY said:
You support the dictatorship in Egypt in order to protect it from the Enraged Arab Street .
rfbrw said:
Absolutely correct.
The only country where Arab citizens can freely vote and elect officials with actual power is...
20% of the citizen population, with a similar representation in Knesset.
It is far too bad that the desire for "stability" by the US and EU over-rules the desire for self-determination and self-government.
It is far too bad that the desire for "stability" by the US and EU over-rules the desire for self-determination and self-government.
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