@markbakk @stv
Does it really matter what it is?
When a tweeter is not loaded with a waveguide or horn, the distortion just goes up roughly at 2 x fs.
With some good performing tweeters a little less than that.
So with a waveguide you kill two birds with one stone (poor birds 🙁 ).
Does it really matter what it is?
When a tweeter is not loaded with a waveguide or horn, the distortion just goes up roughly at 2 x fs.
With some good performing tweeters a little less than that.
So with a waveguide you kill two birds with one stone (poor birds 🙁 ).
- directivity is drastically improved (in fact it's horrible without a waveguide for combining it with anything > 4.5 inch)
- distortion around fs has drastically been lowered (since the output has been boosted)
There is a distortion plot on the datasheet for the Wavecor horn loaded tweeters that shows distortion rising from about 1300 or so from memory, which is anout 3x FS.
I just use a really small full range (or two) as a tweeter, but then I like single order crossovers.
That waveguide starts to load the tweeter (well) above 2k. The distortion (data sheet) is below 1% @ 1kHz. And that with 2V applied. Translated to the Visaton combo that would be roughly equivalent to 0,4V on that tweeter. So all in all not a good comparison.
There is one small thing with Visaton publishing sensitivity at 1W/1m. It is referenced to a voltage dropped over Re=5.9 giving a smaller SPL value than at Re=8. Seas calculates SPL referenced to 8R.
SPL(2.83V/1m)=SPL(1W/m)+10*log(8/Re)
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The Visaton Alto is lowest budget, Mom wants some Music in the kitchen class. I can buy an industrial made speaker of this quality for less money than it will cost to build a cabinet. This makes no sense IMO. The price for the kit is a bad joke. You can find much better combinations for half the money.
A good source for low budget, but well made kits are the "Cheap Tricks" and "Clevere Concepte" from Klang & Ton and Hobby Hifi.
You should find most of them and many more here: https://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/journal_ct_en.htm
You can build these kits much cheaper if you do not buy the boutique x-over parts. One can not mention this often enough. Sometimes these parts cost more than the speaker chassis.
A good source for low budget, but well made kits are the "Cheap Tricks" and "Clevere Concepte" from Klang & Ton and Hobby Hifi.
You should find most of them and many more here: https://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/journal_ct_en.htm
You can build these kits much cheaper if you do not buy the boutique x-over parts. One can not mention this often enough. Sometimes these parts cost more than the speaker chassis.
I understand your disapointment. I have worked on 2 occasions with both of the impedance variants. 8R version is an ideal candidate for a larger sealed
cabinet. The problem, as always, is in the weakest link and that is a DIYer himself. Nothing distorts so much as fans cheering! Either for or against it.
cabinet. The problem, as always, is in the weakest link and that is a DIYer himself. Nothing distorts so much as fans cheering! Either for or against it.
If for some ugly reason you want a Visaton Kit, the
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/ct270_en.htm
is the better alternative to the Alto I. Same price.
If you read the text, you will find that this kit was 50€ before Visaton rised the price for decades old drivers. So you get a kit worth 50€ and pay 130€.
https://www.lautsprechershop.de/hifi/ct270_en.htm
is the better alternative to the Alto I. Same price.
If you read the text, you will find that this kit was 50€ before Visaton rised the price for decades old drivers. So you get a kit worth 50€ and pay 130€.
My current Mission 761 speakers are stated as 89db sensitive and they work fine with my amp at the moderate levels I listen at. A pair of Wharfedale Programme 30D at 86db were also OK. So anything abpve 86db should be OK. I keep saying I'm in a city apartment with people upstairs, downstairs and on either side and there's no chance of me shaking the walls. I accept that you guys are stating general principles for users who listen at louder volumes and that's fine, but just not my particular case. And anyway, if I needed a more powerful amp I could easily build one.
You seem to have comprehensively written off the Visaton option, so I'll delete it. I'm grateful for your experience here! At the moment this still points to the CA18RLY design from Troels at 90db unless I get a better plan. The front panel can be replaced any time, so changes can happen quite easily if better options appear. I'm leaning towards the 20 litre option for the cabinet here. If I wanted a larger cabinet I could buy a commercial pair of 8" speakers and reinforce the cabinet, something like one of the older Mission range. I'm looking forward to building this when I get a few amp builds collected and off my hands. Can't wait.
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It's confusing. Boxsim comes with a Bijou version as a default project
The alu cone version is shown in the shop but uses a far more expensive tweet. It's Fs is compensate and it can be used over a wider than usual F range. The SC10n is a cheapo designed to work in the low tweeter range. Some need a higher cross over F, more suited to 3 way.
This is the alu version in the shop
http://www.visatonshop.at/Bausaetze/2-Wege-Boxen/BIJOU-170-STK.html?listtype=search&searchparam=5889
I couldn't find that one on Visaton's official site. The price appears to be down to the retailer.
Which one to use then.There is a big range even on prices
https://www.soundimports.eu/en/audi...filter":"sorting","product_count":0,"page":1}
The 170s appears to be the first one that crops up that is very likely to be ok crossing over at 2 to 3K
They also do cheaper 170's. All come with data. Boxsim is rather picky about how the data is measured.
Some people suggest a different route to designing a speaker. Buy the chassis and measure them and use these figures for the design as the makers data "may" be unreliable. Some do them in free air yet they will end up in a box. Some are designed for vented.
I really don’t know why one should stay away from Visaton. But after offering some 8”-1” options that all do a real 85-86dB eff. my question would be: what does the OP need to make a choice?
me neither really. One more piece of info on the w170-s, Boxsim style
It has a very long cone throw to achieve that. Linear excursion 4.25mm per side, 95dB at 50Hz.
How much this helps Andy. Pass much depends on the performance of the speakers he has used. As a muscian I doubt if he favours boomy bass. Some do. Well produced music is unlikely to shake windows.
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Well, it's more that you can get a lot more speaker performance from other brands.
Just look at the many measurements that can be found at like Hobby Hifi magazine.
These days I also find them to expensive.
There are a few exceptions.