what's wrong

Status
Not open for further replies.
I gave my brother a 25wpc amp. He bought some mission speakers. I asked him how they sound. He said not too good cuz the speakers requires a min 30wpc amp. So I ask him to crank up the volume to the max then at least he will get a full 25w. He said that will be too loud for listening. So what's missing here?
 

Jay

Banned
2003-02-11 9:02 am
Jakarta
Saying that an amp requires a minimum of 30W is only a generalization...

There are several things in a speaker that require things that USUALLY are available only with high wattage amplifiers. So it is a generalisation. It is NOT the wattage that is actually needed.
 

KatieandDad

Member
2011-11-17 3:49 pm
UK
In a decent hi-fi set up the amplifier power goes a long way to provide the full dynamic range of the input signal.

At lower listening levels 25W would be more than sufficient for pleasant listening.

It's only as the "base" level is increased that the amplifier needs more power available to reach those dynamic crescendos.

Some speakers perform very poorly at lower listening levels.
 

Jay

Banned
2003-02-11 9:02 am
Jakarta
Some speakers perform very poorly at lower listening levels.

"Damping" is the common terminology to express the amplifier ability to control the speaker's cone. Paralleled output transistors will usually increase damping, but rarely people use parallel output transistor at low power amp.

Class-A amps, even tho tend to have low damping, usually have big current capability, and is ready when needed. That's why class-A never seem to lack power. And people rarely use big transformer and capacitance in low power amp.

But some speakers may really need high current because of low impedance and sharp phase angle at certain frequency. But usually this is not the issue.
 
The difference between 25W and 30W is 0.8dB. This is a completely negligible change.

So what's missing here?
I suspect what is missing is an understanding of audio?

Maybe he has heard a distorting amp, and a clean amp does not deliver the distortion he is used to. Distortion can be misheard as extra volume, unless it is so bad that it becomes recognised as distortion.
 

Lojzek

Member
2012-02-10 12:12 pm
Croatia
So, you gave your brother a 25Wpc amplifier, but you didn't say
what kind of an amp. Was it a quality piece of electronics? Was it
a brand name? I know for myself that I don't fancy the older days
chip amps, like STK. Terrible sounding except on a very low volume
setting like 1W.
 

infinia

Member
2005-05-15 9:51 am
SoCal
Is this a "bro fight" in the works.
he might have a point*. Most folks fail to realize consumer speakers have a sweet spot in volume, Mission aka ~30W peaks. I typically don't like amps up near their max.
the design details matter, post more info than "watts" on the boxes. *depending on speaker impedances and cheaper amps marketing/optimistic ratings.
 
Last edited:

infinia

Member
2005-05-15 9:51 am
SoCal
wut is it? looking at the amps design aesthetics and lack of details on an amazon sales page, I wouldn't be prepared to argue with any subjective sound assessments. I doubt anything printed in this forum could convince him he's crazy for not giving it some love.
edit> IMO that thing is a marketing scam for folks to get in on the "audiophile tube sound" craze. look on the "eevblog' youtube channel he dissects another one as an example of tube preamp rolled into a SS design = pure gimmicks he said "wank festival").
 
Last edited:
Yes I agree it is a hybrid as mentioned in my other thread. But I see a lot of tube preamps out there for people who has existing SS amps to "colour the tone" before feeding to their SS power amp. So this unit would an example of such where the small signal driver is a tube the power is SS. As I read posts saying changing power tube don't make much of a difference in sound as compare to changing the driver tube makes a whole lot of difference?
 

infinia

Member
2005-05-15 9:51 am
SoCal
As I read posts saying changing power tube don't make much of a difference in sound as compare to changing the driver tube makes a whole lot of difference?

Sorry but you cant compare this thing to a real tube amp. the tubes are shoe horned in for looks only. The tubes are not performing any real function from an engineering perspective. There is barely enough engineering in that hybrid unit to prevent fraud. A tube guy with any knowledge would warn others away. Read the review article!!! (see the link provided in post 3 of the earlier thread you started)... . It's typical cheap Chinese, looks genuine but scratch the surface and it's a fake. Here is another product from the same https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coSt5HWRvv4

Sound wise you must have some doubts, listen to your bro!
score card Bchiu -1, Bro = 0
PS don't start anymore threads bout this, beginning to think you are promoting a scam.
 
Last edited:
Maybe because the old Rotel blows it out of the water?
Agree that 25 and 30W are basically the same, now consider 7W and 25W and the difference is huge, way more so if used with relatively inefficient speakers which need the muscle.

This is one Customer Review at Amazon:

We wanted to love this little amp. We were forced to return it for the following reasons:

-We know tube amps and even though this seems to be a transistor hybrid, after a mere 4 hours of break-in the front face plate, volume and adjustment knobs, USB flash drive VU meter, etc got so burning hot you could hardly touch them. It's normal for any amp, especially a tube amp, to get hot, but NOT where it gets too hot to touch the control knobs. This unit as-is would not last 2 months before the controls, meter, etc would burn up at this rate. Unacceptable.

-The treble and bass pots/knobs are not treble and bass boost or declinations. They are merely light filter types that either muffle or filter some high or low output sounds. Both sound terrible.

- We tried two different types of good speakers- one 4 and on 8 ohms. Sound from any input source sounds defective, muffled, and weak. This is after the 16 hour break in point.
-Left channel was louder than right channel. Turning the amp off and letting it cool down, then removing the tubes from the cheap plastic protection protection towers, no easy task, and reseating them back in did not fix the problem. The 6P plates in the tubes were 'illuminating' differently; probably defective un matched tubes. Also seemed like the dc offsets were not set or calibrated corrected from the factory (amount of balanced power going to the outputs). There is no balance pot/knob.

-There is no way this is a 25w per channel amp. At best after full break in and warm up, maybe 7w inefficient rms per channel at best. The one we got sounded weak and eniemic.

With the amount of frying heat on the front face plate and all front control knobs, meter, etc we do not recommend this to anyone for any reason. We either got a defective one, or this is exactly how it was engineered and made.
Will now check the EEVblog who really tears stuff apart .
 
This thread is starting to get sidetracked again by other members. Let's forget about the hybrid amp and get back to my original question. What I really want to know is if an amp can drive the speakers to a very loud audible level, it means it has sufficient power to drive the speakers so even connecting the speakers to 100w amp should not sound any different? The only different is maybe on the weaker receiver I might need to turn the volume to 3 o o'clock and on the 100w maybe a 9 o clock would achieve the same loudness?

The only thing I can think of is that by cranking the a weaker amp to its max it will start clipping and getting distorted. But as long as the amp is still within its operating level by design the sound should be just as good as pumping out from a 100w amp?
 
Last edited:

infinia

Member
2005-05-15 9:51 am
SoCal
I gave my brother a 25wpc amp. He bought some mission speakers. I asked him how they sound. He said not too good cuz the speakers requires a min 30wpc amp. So I ask him to crank up the volume to the max then at least he will get a full 25w. He said that will be too loud for listening. So what's missing here?

all else being equal, distortion always sounds louder BUT as your wiser brother knows louder doesn't mean better SQ.
higher power amps will have more margin (headroom) for keeping out trouble when cranking volume by ear.
 
Last edited:
Sippy he did that. But he was just arguing with me why the 25w amp doesn't sound good it because it lack of power. So I thought I would ask the pros here before I countinue my argument without a solid ground.

So I take that as the 25w amp will produce more distortion and higher noise level than a 100w will at the same loudness? Therefore a high power amp will sound better?

So a 10000w amp would sounds the best? Lol
 
Status
Not open for further replies.